Zone blocking question?

[WaldovonPutz]

Did any of the playoff teams run the zone blocking scheme? My general impression was big strapping linemen plowing ahead on runs and putting up a solid pocket for passing. If these are the best teams and aren't using finesse type blocking then are we on the wrong path? I am hoping my impression was wrong, and we are ahead of the game by going ZBS. Any comments?

[D Frank]

hello, i think the falcons run it
i may be wrong.

[blake1776]

I think the more important stat is that of the 4 remaining teams in the playoffs, their defense ranks #1, #2, #3, and then the Cardinals who have the #4 offense, one below us, but have a defense playing like #4...

I think it is obvious where our focus should be.

[Texian]

hello, i think the falcons run it
i may be wrong.

Falcons abandoned it after Mora left.

[GoldenHolden]

I think every team runs a version of the ZBS somewhere in their offense. It may be on specific plays or variations of the ZBS in their overall scheme but every team runs it. The only thing I do not like about it is that it is such a hit and miss scheme. How many runs did you see this season that went for two yards or less? I like the big plays that Slaton was able to get but sometimes it puts your team in a bad spot to be 2nd and 10 or 9.

[D Frank]

I think every team runs a version of the ZBS somewhere in their offense. It may be on specific plays or variations of the ZBS in their overall scheme but every team runs it. The only thing I do not like about it is that it is such a hit and miss scheme. How many runs did you see this season that went for two yards or less? I like the big plays that Slaton was able to get but sometimes it puts your team in a bad spot to be 2nd and 10 or 9.

http://sports.iwon.com/nfl/stats/league/stuffed.html
although slaton avg almost 5.0
he was stuffed quite a bit. check
this site out. it is great. also list
wr drops, Andre had 5 this year

[tgriff00]

http://sports.iwon.com/nfl/stats/league/stuffed.html
although slaton avg almost 5.0
he was stuffed quite a bit. check
this site out. it is great. also list
wr drops, Andre had 5 this year

He may have been stuffed a few times this year, but was 1st in runs over 40+ yds and 3rd in runs over 20+ in the NFL. That's a huge upside to getting stuffed every now and then. Adrian Peterson gets stuffed a lot too, but hits the homerun almost everygame.
Didn't Andre let 3 hit the ground in the first Tenn game. After that he was pretty much lights out.

[Texan Naija]

Did any of the playoff teams run the zone blocking scheme? My general impression was big strapping linemen plowing ahead on runs and putting up a solid pocket for passing. If these are the best teams and aren't using finesse type blocking then are we on the wrong path? I am hoping my impression was wrong, and we are ahead of the game by going ZBS. Any comments?

I still remember hearing in the first game (probably because I was traumatized from the sever arse whooping I was witnessed to) hearing that the Pittsburgh offense had started implementing this season. Of course the thing is that the Zone blocking scheme other people implement is usually described as hybrids compared to the full version that Denver and Houston use based on Alex Gibbs' design.

I wouldn't worry to much about it, even with a big hulking offensive lineman, if they can't play well it shows, look at Dallas. Our group of guys while not always able to stop some of the raging bulls that are defensive linemen on some teams, have performed well given they can't actually practice many aspects of the style except in games.

[D Frank]

He may have been stuffed a few times this year, but was 1st in runs over 40+ yds and 3rd in runs over 20+ in the NFL. That's a huge upside to getting stuffed every now and then. Adrian Peterson gets stuffed a lot too, but hits the homerun almost everygame.
Didn't Andre let 3 hit the ground in the first Tenn game. After that he was pretty much lights out.

yeah, i now i sounded like a slaton hater
i was actually replying to ^ infront of me
saying how we often get stuffed at the
line of scrimage and i posted a stat that
went along with his analysis sp? it stated
he was 2 in the afc with 29 stuffs. as i
stated he averaged 5.0 almost so i luv em
he is our back. :D

[tgriff00]

yeah, i now i sounded like a slaton hater
i was actually replying to ^ infront of me
saying how we often get stuffed at the
line of scrimage and i posted a stat that
went along with his analysis sp? it stated
he was 2 in the afc with 29 stuffs. as i
stated he averaged 5.0 almost so i luv em
he is our back. :D

I want him to hit some hella squats and wind sprints in the offseason to get a little more power in those legs and he could even be our short yd back. Anyone wonder why they never tried running him to the outside in short yd situations? Similar to what Pitt did with Willie Parker on the RedZone TD run yesterday..Just curious..

[D Frank]

I want him to hit some hella squats and wind sprints in the offseason to get a little more power in those legs and he could even be our short yd back. Anyone wonder why they never tried running him to the outside in short yd situations? Similar to what Pitt did with Willie Parker on the RedZone TD run yesterday..Just curious..

I wonder,but at the same time "I"
personally think, our o line needs
to seal off the edge better to do
that and the coaches need to put the players
in position to execute their strengths a lil better
in the red zone. we got 3's instead of 7's

[GoldenHolden]

Oh I wasn't putting the stuffs on Slaton. I was stating that the ZBS results in a lot of minimal runs.

[blake1776]

Running the ball results in a lot of minimal runs.

[D Frank]

Oh I wasn't putting the stuffs on Slaton. I was stating that the ZBS results in a lot of minimal runs.

ok, my bad i misinterpreted sp?
"I like the big plays that Slaton was able to get but sometimes it puts your team in a bad spot to be 2nd and 10 or 9."

i originally thought you were talkin bout
slaton but after a few more beers i see
you are talkin about the zbs in general
my bad

[Se7en]

Championship Broncos ran the ZBS... so it is not the ZBS that is the issue. Defense wins championships, but a solid offense helps make everything easier too.

[powerhouse713]

I believe the panthers do but I may be wrong...

[TexanJM]

I bet if you asked Steve Slaton he would tell you the ZBS works.

[dbruder44]

I believe the panthers do but I may be wrong...

No the Panthers don't Jeff Otah would have been our pick if he was a ZBS tackle (whom carolina) drafted at 19

[WaldovonPutz]

I bet if you asked Steve Slaton he would tell you the ZBS works.

I believe Slaton could do well running behind the Steelers or Eagles lines also. I was just wondering if the successful playoff teams don't run it, should we? One poster mentioned the Broncos, who won years ago with a hall of fame QB famed for pulling success out of a hat. Have there been any others?

[TEXANBRONCO]

COME ON MAN.....any team that has a RUN PLAY......surely they discussed which way they were goin, and who was gona block who:D....has a ZBS. from the very basic in high school to the pittsburg steelers right now...then u pull a guard with a tightend and BOOM...then u pull another tightend and have a reciever in motion and BOOM....there goes SS:D KUBIAK saw it alot in the NFL. and INSTALLED it into his own WEST COAST OFFENSE.....shhhhhhh dont be tellin every1....sure their are alot that dont use it LIKE WE DO. but in KUBIAK,s life we gota have it:D........and i just gota say i cant ****IN wait for the draft:D

[infantrycak]

No the Panthers don't Jeff Otah would have been our pick if he was a ZBS tackle (whom carolina) drafted at 19

The Panthers run a heavy mix of ZBS like we did with Sherman.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp07/columns/story?id=2961153

[Se7en]

I believe Slaton could do well running behind the Steelers or Eagles lines also. I was just wondering if the successful playoff teams don't run it, should we? One poster mentioned the Broncos, who won years ago with a hall of fame QB famed for pulling success out of a hat. Have there been any others?

Are you honestly feeling that we have problems with our offense other than redzone and turnovers? Our Offense is up there with every offense in the league and can compete with any offense in the league.

What we need to add is a solid defense that can keep us ahead in games by limiting scoring.

[WaldovonPutz]

Are you honestly feeling that we have problems with our offense other than redzone and turnovers? Our Offense is up there with every offense in the league and can compete with any offense in the league.

What we need to add is a solid defense that can keep us ahead in games by limiting scoring.

Our offense did generate a lot of yards, mostly through passing. We had red zone problems, especially short yardage ones. We kicked a lot of field goals. And I'm not being negative, it's just that it seems no play off teams use the ZBS. I really wanted to be reassured, but so far no one has come up with any good examples of success other than the old Broncos, who were primarily John Elway's team. I would love to see it thrive with the Texans, but I love the smash mouth clubs that seem to thrive year after year. I agree with you about defense, and I think we're on our way with Bush. I like what he said about simplifying and letting the players tee off.

[wildroot]

Are you honestly feeling that we have problems with our offense other than redzone and turnovers? Our Offense is up there with every offense in the league and can compete with any offense in the league.

What we need to add is a solid defense that can keep us ahead in games by limiting scoring.

That's sort of like saying "0ther than that Mrs Kennedy, how'd ya like Dallas?" I mean c'mon, those are two major problems we have to overcome. We don't win if we can't score and we can't win if we give the other team the ball. Yeah, we can move the ball up and down the field with the best of them, that's why our ranking is so high, but it's a misleading stat. Not being able to score inside the red zone is sorta a big deal and turnovers are right there too.

[Se7en]

Our offense did generate a lot of yards, mostly through passing. We had red zone problems, especially short yardage ones. We kicked a lot of field goals. And I'm not being negative, it's just that it seems no play off teams use the ZBS. I really wanted to be reassured, but so far no one has come up with any good examples of success other than the old Broncos, who were primarily John Elway's team. I would love to see it thrive with the Texans, but I love the smash mouth clubs that seem to thrive year after year. I agree with you about defense, and I think we're on our way with Bush. I like what he said about simplifying and letting the players tee off.

The Championship Broncos were Terrel Davis, Shannon Sharp, Ed McCafery, and Elways team. They ahd a very explosive offense that helped win the big game for Elway. Elway would not have won a superbowl if it was nto for the entire explosive offense around him which included the explosive ZBS run game with Davis in the backfield.

Our offense is nearly identical with that of the championship Broncos and with a solid D we will be able to win championships with the pieces we currently have on O. The ZBS system is fine in my opinion even though it is not the norm for the league.

The tampa two D was nott he norm of the league when it took off and now there are a number of teams that run it. You may see a similar flavor-of-the-month type of thing with the ZBS in the future.

[Se7en]

That's sort of like saying "0ther than that Mrs Kennedy, how'd ya like Dallas?" I mean c'mon, those are two major problems we have to overcome. We don't win if we can't score and we can't win if we give the other team the ball. Yeah, we can move the ball up and down the field with the best of them, that's why our ranking is so high, but it's a misleading stat. Not being able to score inside the red zone is sorta a big deal and turnovers are right there too.

Both of which have nothing to do with the ZBS portion of the offense that we were discussing. We were discussing the ZBS as a viable playoff offense. In my opinion the problems with our offense have nothing to do with it being a ZBS blocking scheme.

[Matt_in_KW]

Did any of the playoff teams run the zone blocking scheme? My general impression was big strapping linemen plowing ahead on runs and putting up a solid pocket for passing. If these are the best teams and aren't using finesse type blocking then are we on the wrong path? I am hoping my impression was wrong, and we are ahead of the game by going ZBS. Any comments?

Think about this for a sec. Denver ran/runs the ZBS and appeared in 2 Super Bowls(winning 1) and made the play offs how many times?

Green Bay uses a form of the ZBS and how many times did they show up in the play offs? And they also won a Super Bowl useing a type of ZBS.

So, many teams use atleast a concept of the ZBS. Maybe not the "Gibbs way", yet to a degree about 50-60% of the NFL uses it in some form. So, yes some of the play off teams run it and some run systems with the ZBS in it.

EDIT: Thats ALL the teams that made the play offs I was talking about, not per say the ones left.

[zanth91]

Think about this for a sec. Denver ran/runs the ZBS and appeared in 2 Super Bowls(winning 1) and made the play offs how many times?

Green Bay uses a form of the ZBS and how many times did they show up in the play offs? And they also won a Super Bowl useing a type of ZBS.

So, many teams use atleast a concept of the ZBS. Maybe not the "Gibbs way", yet to a degree about 50-60% of the NFL uses it in some form. So, yes some of the play off teams run it and some run systems with the ZBS in it.

EDIT: Thats ALL the teams that made the play offs I was talking about, not per say the ones left.

And....the Eagles? You forgot them. ;)

[Matt_in_KW]

And....the Eagles? You forgot them. ;)

And the Eagles...yea thats true as well. Didn't the Rams team that beat the Tacks in the SB run a version of the ZBS?

[Se7en]

Think about this for a sec. Denver ran/runs the ZBS and appeared in 2 Super Bowls(winning 1) and made the play offs how many times?

Green Bay uses a form of the ZBS and how many times did they show up in the play offs? And they also won a Super Bowl useing a type of ZBS.

So, many teams use atleast a concept of the ZBS. Maybe not the "Gibbs way", yet to a degree about 50-60% of the NFL uses it in some form. So, yes some of the play off teams run it and some run systems with the ZBS in it.

EDIT: Thats ALL the teams that made the play offs I was talking about, not per say the ones left.


This is more in depth than I went, nice post. I figured that if teams had one championships with the ZBS it must be fine. I am shocked this is still a topic for discussion, unless the OP is simply looking for people to agree that the ZBS is not a playoff worth system.

The pure ZBS is not used by many teams. However, any plays where a lineman pulls to the flats to block... that is the ZBS. As far as I know, a lot of teams run ZBS style plays even though it is not the focus of their offense. I remember watching a few ZBS plays from the packers and I was shocked to see them because I did not realize they used zone blocking at all.

[WaldovonPutz]

Well, I appreciate all the input. To recap, there are no exclusive ZBS teams in the playoff but most incorporate some of it in their offensive schemes. So I am willing to sit and wait for next year. The only thing that still worries me is that being pure ZBS means we will only draft and develop lighter linemen which may be a plus in some situations but a minus in short yardage plays. I'll leave it up to Kubiak to figure out the solution. Here's hoping we join the teams in the playoffs next year.

[TEXANBRONCO]

i heard talk about the BRONCOS and had to SAY SOMETHING. JOHN ELWAY was very special. he had more HEART, and little to say, about everything he did. he had more pure desire to win than any1 i ever saw. and that was in EVERY game. he didnt talk about it....he showed you on the field how bad he wanted to win. he was the MASTER of misdirection....on fake handoffs and in voice control on the field....KUBIAK WATCHED AND LEARNED.....EVERYTHING:D....KUBIAKS WEST COAST OFFENSE WITH THE ZBS...is simply the most dangerous there is...SS got 1200 yds his rookie year while LEARNING the system. i wont even talk about AJ/KW/OD and what they did with BLOCKING DOWN FIELD for SS in the ZBS. and yes TD or TERRELL DAVIS was a very special back...with the ZBS... and he wasnt a really bigback at all. our offense is about set for the run...this year was a gr8 PRACTICE waiting for the DEFENSE to WAKEUP:D

[Se7en]

The only thing that still worries me is that being pure ZBS means we will only draft and develop lighter linemen which may be a plus in some situations but a minus in short yardage plays. I'll leave it up to Kubiak to figure out the solution.

As a finess blocking scheme I would love to see us take some screen passes on some of those short yardage situations rather than always smashing Slaton between the Tackles each time hoping for a cut-back lane.

[Matt_in_KW]

Well, I appreciate all the input. To recap, there are no exclusive ZBS teams in the playoff but most incorporate some of it in their offensive schemes. So I am willing to sit and wait for next year. The only thing that still worries me is that being pure ZBS means we will only draft and develop lighter linemen which may be a plus in some situations but a minus in short yardage plays. I'll leave it up to Kubiak to figure out the solution. Here's hoping we join the teams in the playoffs next year.

This isn't always the case. True most pure ZBS OL are smaller and faster, and not 330lb beasts. However if an OL comes up in the draft that is a house, yet has quick feet and can shed a rusher/tackler after blocking and continue into the next level of a D. Yes, he would be drafted...just unsure what round. Gibbs has a talent for getting great players in later rounds. In Denver, he had Pro Bowl talent across the OL and many where late round picks. The guys fit the system and while they may of been say 5th round selections they became Pro bowlers in the scheme. So, yes most our OL will be upper 200's to low 300lb area(290's-315's are common) yet don't be shocked to see us or any ZBS team have some players with 330lb OL...look at the Eagles:D

[wildroot]

This isn't always the case. True most pure ZBS OL are smaller and faster, and not 330lb beasts. However if an OL comes up in the draft that is a house, yet has quick feet and can shed a rusher/tackler after blocking and continue into the next level of a D. Yes, he would be drafted...just unsure what round. Gibbs has a talent for getting great players in later rounds. In Denver, he had Pro Bowl talent across the OL and many where late round picks. The guys fit the system and while they may of been say 5th round selections they became Pro bowlers in the scheme. So, yes most our OL will be upper 200's to low 300lb area(290's-315's are common) yet don't be shocked to see us or any ZBS team have some players with 330lb OL...look at the Eagles:D

I wish he'd have found one last year in a later round so we could have used our 1st round pick on a DB!

[bobizzle]

I wish he'd have found one last year in a later round so we could have used our 1st round pick on a DB!

I actually think the team wanted Mike Jenkins, but he didnt enter the draft..Will he this year? Or am i wrong?:confused:

[TEXANBRONCO]

The houston texans select ol oklahoma phillip loadholt 6'8" 337:d

[Matt_in_KW]

I actually think the team wanted Mike Jenkins, but he didnt enter the draft..Will he this year? Or am i wrong?:confused:

No telling who they wanted, and they will never say. I think this year we have a 3 way race with draft pick #1. Either a DB(CB or S depends on who is best when we get our pick), DE to pair with Mario, or a WR or RB to help the O be even better. A WR to pair with AJ would be nice...but a smash mouth RB wouldn't hurt either.

Still, the OL, minus 1 guy maybe should be set. That is unless Brown didn't show the staff enough and they go for an OL pick in the first 3 rounds...doubt that.

[Se7en]

No telling who they wanted, and they will never say. I think this year we have a 3 way race with draft pick #1. Either a DB(CB or S depends on who is best when we get our pick), DE to pair with Mario, or a WR or RB to help the O be even better. A WR to pair with AJ would be nice...but a smash mouth RB wouldn't hurt either.

Still, the OL, minus 1 guy maybe should be set. That is unless Brown didn't show the staff enough and they go for an OL pick in the first 3 rounds...doubt that.

I think we grabbed a CB of the future with Moulden last draft. He was a beast on special teams and will hopefully grow into a great corner. If we do end up grabbing a corner early I will be shocked. Among Dunta, Reeves, Bennett, and Moulden we should have a solid secondary if we get pressure under our new defensive scheme.

I honestly think the secondary will look amazing once we get pressure and blitz packages that actually WORK for a change.

I would like to see us grab a Center and Right Guard as well.