09 offseason thoughts...

[CrisR]

It's been forever since I've been able to post.......sorry if this has a thread going somewhere else.

Just some thoughts on some moves that might make sense for the Texans this offseason........
#1 resign our key guys.

FA's....
- Mike Montgomery DE/Packers....has some pass rush ability on a team with little pass rush ability. Montgomery played at A&M. Might be a nice compliment opposite MW, would come alot cheaper than Peppers.

- Alan Page FS/Kansas City....a restricted free agent (not sure what of compensation yet.) Was one of David Gibbs guys, could really shine with an improved defense once out of KC.

- Cedric Benson RB/Bengals...played at UT with Kyle. Benson isn't going to be the favorite pick of anyone on the board including me, but we don't need a big name back, we need a guy that can punch the ball through the line on short yardage. Benson CAN do that, again another guy that should come relatively cheap.

We also need a OLB but honestly none stick out to me as being a good fit here.

Draft....
1st trade back.........maybe with the Patriots for an extra 3rd.
Select Aaron Maybin, OLB, Penn St.
2nd Victor Harris, CB, Virginia Tech
3rd A Nic Harris, DB/LB/, OU.......I'd have him try SS for us.
3rd B Pat White, QB/WR/RS, West Virginia taking this guy with a late 3rd round pick shouldn't be much of a waste reguardless.
4th Glen Coffee, RB, Alabama
5th Pannel Egboh, DE, Stanford
6th Cedric Dockery, OG, Texas
7th Jorvorskie Lane, FB, Texas A&M

[GoldenHolden]

It's been forever since I've been able to post.......sorry if this has a thread going somewhere else.

Just some thoughts on some moves that might make sense for the Texans this offseason........
#1 resign our key guys.

FA's....
- Mike Montgomery DE/Packers....has some pass rush ability on a team with little pass rush ability. Montgomery played at A&M. Might be a nice compliment opposite MW, would come alot cheaper than Peppers.

- Alan Page FS/Kansas City....a restricted free agent (not sure what of compensation yet.) Was one of David Gibbs guys, could really shine with an improved defense once out of KC.

- Cedric Benson RB/Bengals...played at UT with Kyle. Benson isn't going to be the favorite pick of anyone on the board including me, but we don't need a big name back, we need a guy that can punch the ball through the line on short yardage. Benson CAN do that, again another guy that should come relatively cheap.

We also need a OLB but honestly none stick out to me as being a good fit here.

Draft....
1st trade back.........maybe with the Patriots for an extra 3rd.
Select Aaron Maybin, OLB, Penn St.
2nd Victor Harris, CB, Virginia Tech
3rd A Nic Harris, DB/LB/, OU.......I'd have him try SS for us.
3rd B Pat White, QB/WR/RS, West Virginia taking this guy with a late 3rd round pick shouldn't be much of a waste reguardless.
4th Glen Coffee, RB, Alabama
5th Pannel Egboh, DE, Stanford
6th Cedric Dockery, OG, Texas
7th Jorvorskie Lane, FB, Texas A&M

Here are some thoughts on your post...

Cedric Benson- after the way he finished the season with Cincy, he will be looking for a starter position and starter money. He actually finished well while playing on a horrible team. I would expect the Bengals to lock him up.

I like the idea of trading back but I'm not a big fan of speculating in mock drafts. It is a crap shoot to be right. Besides, who would the Pat's be trading up to get?

As for Maybin, he definetely wouldn't be my first choice. I see you have him as an OLB but the only way he plays LB in the nfl would be in a 3-4 defense. He could possibly put on the weight needed to play DE in a 4-3. If we go LB in the first (I doubt we do) it will be for either Rey M, Laurinitis, or Curry.

I'm ok with your 2nd and 3rd round picks although we need a FS more than a SS.

We won't be drafting a WR in the 3rd and we wouldn't draft a guy to return kicks that early either. Let alone a guy that has never played Wr or returned kicks in his college career.

J. Lane will not be drafted either. I wouldn't even bring him in as a UDFA. He weighed 295 at the Shiner's Bowl and he didn't even play well. The guy has no discipline. If you watched his interview on chron.com he said he just needs to stop drinking so he can lose some weight... Who the heck says that??? I'm an Aggie fan and I loved him there but he has no business playing in the nfl.

[TheLBCoach]

Pat White would be a GREAT fit for this team! Wildcat weapon, anyone?

[kevin]

yea that would be great for the wildcat but people will pick up on that like we did. (against the dolphins). and that would be the only thing that he could do. Hes gunna be wr at the next level but ive never seen him catch a pass. I wouldnt draft a "project" in the 3rd round. but if he proves that he can catch well enough then i say do it.

[chjoak]

I hate to be harsh but I would be pissed if this was the Texans draft.

- I have no issues with Montgomery or Page mostly because I don't know enough about them to dispute your suggestion.
- Benson will never happen. Texans front office will not sign anyone with character issues and Benson is one of the character issue poster boys.
- Your draft fails to address some of our glaring needs.
--- Where is the Power HB (won't be Benson & Coffee is 6'1" under 200lbs)?
--- Where is the C?
--- Where is the FS?
- Maybin is a situational pass rush DE or a 3-4 OLB. Last I noticed we run a 4-3. There are so many other OLBs that would better fit our system.
- Vic Harris is a decent CB. Personally I really like him. We just don't need a CB this high.
- Nic Harris is a SS in the NFL. We currently have 3-4 SSs on the roster. Our need is a true FS. Plus Nic Harris is a dirty player.
- Pat White? He is not a good QB and we are not yet a good enough team to be drafting a situational WR/KR/trick play guy this high in the draft. I will admit that the idea of Pat White is interesting but I wouldn't pull the trigger until the later rounds.
- Glen Coffee is a decent HB but we already have Slaton & Moats that fill the same need. We need a Power HB.
- Pannel Egboh lacks speed, strength and is projected 7th or UDFA.
- Cedric Dockery is ok but I think there are better fits in this draft.
- Jorvorskie Lane? Really? 2 years ago, yes. But not now. He has completely let himself go (295lbs at East-West Shrine Game), can't run block and is ineffective as short yardage HB. Any GM that will waste a draft pick on him should be immediately fired. Now if you want to bring him in as a UDFA, I don't have a problem with that.

[HuttoKarl]

Drafting Javorskie Lane would be the biggest waste of a draft pick since the last guy we drafted in the 7th round.

[BornOrange]

Some comments:
FREE AGENTS
1. Mike Montgomery got some starts this year in Green Bay, and the fans can't wait to get rid of him. I don't think we want a guy who was a weak link on a defense similar to ours.
2. Jarrad Page is the name of the free safety from Kansas City. He seems to be a guy with potential, but it depends on how the Chiefs label him and then if they are willing to match any offer the Texans make. I wouldn't mind this move, as long as the price isn't too high.
3. I wouldn't touch Cedric Benson with a ten-foot pole. He was a locker room cancer at UT and in Chicago. The Texans would be better off drafting a RB that is hungry and will play cheap. Benson will want too much money and starter's carries, and would make trouble if he isn't happy.

DRAFT
I like the idea of trading down if there isn't a superstar available.
1. Aaron Maybin - We definitely need a pass rusher, and Maybin is someone to keep an eye on. A concern I have is that he is a soph and may take longer to adjust to the NFL. We need someone who can contribute from Day One.
2. Victor Harris - We don't need to draft a corner this early. With Robinson, Reeves, Bennett, and Molden already in the fold there are much bigger needs elsewhere. DE, S, DT, RB, LB are higher priorities. However, a 6th or 7th rounder to develop on the practice squad would be OK.
3a. Nic Harris - We do need a safety, but someone who has coverage skills. Harris is a big liability against the pass. After scouts see film of him this year, he might be lucky to be drafted.
3b. Pat White - White is a very intriguing prospect. If he is willing to switch positions, he could be a productive return specialist and #3 WR. If Kubiak is ready to give up on Mathis, this just might be a possibility. I would love to see him be used like Antwan Randle El was in Pittsburgh.
4. Glen Coffee - If he is available, this would be a good pick.
5. Pannel Egboh - I'm concerned about a DE who only had 1.5 sacks as a senior in the pass-happy PAC 10. Even though he's 6-6 and 280, reports from the East West Shrine game are that he's not a good bull rusher and needs to work on his strength.
6. Cedric Dockery - He's probably a good fit for the zone blocking scheme, but does he have the fire to be a starting offensive lineman in the NFL? His measurables might get him selected as early as the 5th, but I doubt he will be taken in the fourth.
7. Jorvorskie Lane - He has potential, but he may have eaten his way out of a shot in the NFL. First he got in Sherman's doghouse over his weight, and then he showed up to the East-West Shrine practices at 295. Getting stuffed 3 straight plays inside the five didn't help. You know that Kubiak will have a talk with Sherman about any Aggies with NFL potential, and what he hears will make him run away. Kubiak wouldn't waste a draft pick or even a camp invitation on someone like Lane.

[kevin]

what does everybody think of drafting micheal johnson from georgia tech.(incase we dont get peppers) would it too high to get him at 15. he is kind of skinny but hopefully with a professional strength and conditioning program he could get bigger. he is very athletic.

[chjoak]

what does everybody think of drafting micheal johnson from georgia tech.(incase we dont get peppers) would it too high to get him at 15. he is kind of skinny but hopefully with a professional strength and conditioning program he could get bigger. he is very athletic.

He is a high risk high reward kind of guy. He has good measurables but anyone that drafts him will be drafting him on potential alone. Personally I don't think our team is in the position to draft pure potential at 15.

[BornOrange]

If he can be a good situational pass rusher right away, I would love to have him.

We could use him strictly in passing situations for his first year or two with Anthony Weaver and/or Earl Cochrane getting the bulk of snaps

[Wolverine]

DRAFT
3b. Pat White - White is a very intriguing prospect. If he is willing to switch positions, he could be a productive return specialist and #3 WR. If Kubiak is ready to give up on Mathis, this just might be a possibility. I would love to see him be used like Antwan Randle El was in Pittsburgh.


Who is this Mathis you speak of? :D

[WaldovonPutz]

Who is this Mathis you speak of? :D

It's a slip. He's thinking of another Texan returner, Jerome Mathis. He was so good in his rookie year he made the pro bowl.

[chjoak]

If he can be a good situational pass rusher right away, I would love to have him.

We could use him strictly in passing situations for his first year or two with Anthony Weaver and/or Earl Cochrane getting the bulk of snaps

Problem with that is that he hasn't shown anything in college to indicate he could be a situational pass rusher. Like I said, his current draft stock is based total on his size, build & physical abilities. His stats, not so much.

[BornOrange]

I don't know if I can say his full name without being banned....

[Se7en]

If he can be a good situational pass rusher right away, I would love to have him.

We could use him strictly in passing situations for his first year or two with Anthony Weaver and/or Earl Cochrane getting the bulk of snaps

I would rather see us pick every down players, rather than doing more of the specialist stuff that we have done with Weaver. Perhaps if we had a specialist that could get pressure I would feel differently, but I would rather see a player on the field for each snap that will cover both the run and passing situations.

To get that we need to draft a D/E early and then we can look to other positions. I am convinced that our secondary is not that bad, it was just getting picked on due to our lack of pressure. If teams can continue to double and even triple team Mario we will never get the kind of pressure we need.

I also hope Bulman and Robinson will continue to improve our D-line with their passion and effort.

[lilbush]

Maybin will be top 20 if not top 10-15.

[CrisR]

#1 Mike Montgomery DE/Packers played at A&M and is from Texas. Is not top flite DE. However, the Packers didn't have the best of defensive lines either. He could improve from a change of scene. May also mention that Green Bay didn't get my help from DT play, I'd be willing to be Montgomery would benefit from better play (Okoye) next to him.

#2 Alan Page FS/Kansas City played for Gibbs. He would help solidify FS for years to come for us. Suffered through a bad season on a bad team and still had decent numbers. Keep in mind we have alot of FA, DB's this offseason.

#3 Cedric Benson RB/Bengals played at UT with Kyle. Again Benson isn't anyone's first choice, but he isn't any NFL teams first choice either. He may take another 1 year incentive laden deal to prove he really should be here. Proving it is easier on a team like the Texans than the Bengals. There might be a better choice out there but Benson does make some sense.

Save money, don't go after the big name FA's............resign the big name Texans like AJ, OD, Slaton aka Bye Bye, D.Ryan, M.Will and D.Rob.....the core of this team.

[CrisR]

I said trade from #15 to #23 with the Patriots. Someone asked why would the Pats do it..........Pats #1 need RB, #15 should give them one of the best RB's of the draft still.

This draft is not for need it's about quality, meaning you take the best players available.

#23 Aaron Maybin DE, Penn St. I don't think Maybin would ever play DE for us at all. I think he has OLB written all over him....IMO is a much better version of Adibi. Maybe, Ryans and Adibi as your LB core would be nice!

2nd round: Victor Harris, CB, Virginia Tech. Yeah there where all to many times when Texans fans WOW what a great group of CB's we have............NOT!! No more Petey Faggins please. Harris is the exact same kind of player Gibbs likes.......look at the guy who played opposite him last year.....Brandon Flowers. If Harris is nothing more than depth, he is solid depth not just a roster spot.

3rd round:Nic Harris, SS, OU: If there was ever a guy that needed to just get at a position and stay there this would be it. Harris should excel being in 1 spot with a good coach. D.Rob, Bennett along with Page and the Harris boys & Gibbs coaching should do wonders for our secondary.

3rd round(from New England): Pat White, X-Back, WVU: Imagine White at WR....Slaton, White, AJ, OD & Walter all on the same field, all as weapons for Schaub. White could play WR & RB, be used as a kick returner and be an understudy at QB all at the same time...........yes he would be worth a late 3rd round pick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1p8OKhLE2I

Best thing of that..........Slaton's nickname......."Bye Bye"

[CrisR]

4th: Glenn Coffee, RB, Alabama: The guy is a power down hill runner that is perfect for a zone scheme team. He needs to bulk up a little more and will never be a break away threat. But we want a 3rd and goal at the 1 type of back.........IMO Coffee is that back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHjdSkjj2Rc

5th: Pannel Egboh, DE, Stanford: It maybe a little early to take him, but he would be a project for who ever is our next D-line coach. The guy has the tools and size. He needs more coaching. His heart for the game has come into question......but playing at Stanford with no chance of real wins each year and NO defensive line help can't be easy either............2 things I didn't realize before #1 he is from Texas, #2 Texans apparently have already been scouting him.
http://hou.scout.com/a.z?s=116&p=2&c=804155&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3A%2F%2Fhou.scout.com%2F2%2F8041 55.html

6th: Dockery: I don't think anyone had an arguement with this pick.

7th: Jaws Lane RB/Tamu: It's a 7th round pick........if he busts so what he gets Agg fans excited about the Texans season. However if a ex Aggie head coach can get in his head and straighten him up and a great O line coach like Gibbs could team him to block........then Jaws might be a beast of a full back in the NFL @ 275lbs.

[lpinebriator]

Thing about it is Lane does not want to be a FB, he is convinced that he can be a NFL HB at 295 lbs. Any draft pick on this guy will be a waste unless he wants to move to practice squad Tackle.

[taylor90]

Crisr, im with you for the most part but coffee is way to small to be a power hb and lane is a fat s-o-b and we dont need him, leach is developing into one of the best blocking fbs in the league..

[chjoak]

#23 Aaron Maybin DE, Penn St. I don't think Maybin would ever play DE for us at all. I think he has OLB written all over him....IMO is a much better version of Adibi. Maybe, Ryans and Adibi as your LB core would be nice!

He plays DE now. Typically college DEs translate to either DE or 3-4 OLB in the NFL. The Texans run a 4-3. When was the last time a college DE successfully transitioned to NFL 4-3 OLB. Rather than try to fit a round peg into a square hole why don't we just try to find a natural 4-3 OLB?

2nd round: Victor Harris, CB, Virginia Tech. Yeah there where all to many times when Texans fans WOW what a great group of CB's we have............NOT!! No more Petey Faggins please. Harris is the exact same kind of player Gibbs likes.......look at the guy who played opposite him last year.....Brandon Flowers. If Harris is nothing more than depth, he is solid depth not just a roster spot.

We have DRob, Bennett, Reeves & Molden. There is no way they draft a CB this high unless they expect DRob to be gone. We may not have the best CBs in the league but like WR we have a good deal of depth. We have more pressing needs than CB depth in the 2nd round.

3rd round:Nic Harris, SS, OU: If there was ever a guy that needed to just get at a position and stay there this would be it. Harris should excel being in 1 spot with a good coach. D.Rob, Bennett along with Page and the Harris boys & Gibbs coaching should do wonders for our secondary.

Don't see us drafting a SS especially if we sign a FS via FA. We currently have both Barber & Harrison on the roster, 2 players suited for SS that the coaching staff is high on. If we draft a safety in this draft (and we should) it will be a FS.

3rd round(from New England): Pat White, X-Back, WVU: Imagine White at WR....Slaton, White, AJ, OD & Walter all on the same field, all as weapons for Schaub. White could play WR & RB, be used as a kick returner and be an understudy at QB all at the same time...........yes he would be worth a late 3rd round pick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1p8OKhLE2I

Best thing of that..........Slaton's nickname......."Bye Bye"

I stand by my original comment. We are not a good enough team at this point to be drafting a specialist this high in the draft. As much as people want it, Kubiak won't be running the wildcat anytime in the near future. They very well could draft a WR/KR/PR in this draft but if they do it will likely be 5th - 7th.

4th: Glenn Coffee, RB, Alabama: The guy is a power down hill runner that is perfect for a zone scheme team. He needs to bulk up a little more and will never be a break away threat. But we want a 3rd and goal at the 1 type of back.........IMO Coffee is that back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHjdSkjj2Rc

Again, not a power back. We have a very good running back that cannot get the tough yardage when in the RZ. We need a bruiser that can move the pile. Just because he doesn't have breakaway speed doesn't make him a bruiser. We don't have to have a 230lb+ HB but we do need someone with more lower body strength than Coffee. After watching him in the E-W Shrine game I think the kid from Colo St will likely be Kubiak's guy.

5th: Pannel Egboh, DE, Stanford: It maybe a little early to take him, but he would be a project for who ever is our next D-line coach. The guy has the tools and size. He needs more coaching. His heart for the game has come into question......but playing at Stanford with no chance of real wins each year and NO defensive line help can't be easy either............2 things I didn't realize before #1 he is from Texas, #2 Texans apparently have already been scouting him.
http://hou.scout.com/a.z?s=116&p=2&c=804155&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3A%2F%2Fhou.scout.com%2F2%2F8041 55.html

You can't coach strength & speed. Notes from the E-W Shrine game showed scouts were rating him poorly because his bull rush was horrible and his strength was too low for his size. He is too slow to be a speed rusher and not strong enough to be a bull rusher. If the Texans take a flier there is no way it is this high given his 7th round rating.

6th: Dockery: I don't think anyone had an arguement with this pick.

I'll make an argument. As noted by a someone else in this thread and a couple scouting reports I read, he has displayed a lack of desire in the past and has shown to be lazy. He also does not fit the typical ZBS mold. There are better ZBS OL that will slip to later rounds.

7th: Jaws Lane RB/Tamu: It's a 7th round pick........if he busts so what he gets Agg fans excited about the Texans season. However if a ex Aggie head coach can get in his head and straighten him up and a great O line coach like Gibbs could team him to block........then Jaws might be a beast of a full back in the NFL @ 275lbs.

1. We already have a very good FB and there is really no need to carry 2 on the roster, unless the backup is capable of serving multiple roles.
2. Lane is not a FB. He is either incapable or unwilling to run block. He was moved to FB out of necessity and because of his weight issues. He was so bad at the position that A&M spent most of the season with a converted walk-on LB playing FB because he worked harder and blocked better than Lane.
3. Lane is a short yardage RB that has proven too fat and out of shape to do his job.
4. When evaluating players of equal ability/value Kubiak will always take the player capable of helping on special teams. Lane is not capable of being a solid contributor on any KR/PR coverage. He is too poor a blocker to take the spots typically reserved for OL & Blocking TEs and he is too fat & slow for any other position.
5. His entire life Lane has been told he is too big (most colleges recruited him as a FB due to his 250-260 weight out of high school). Rather than listen to coaches and get into better shape he has made it his mission to prove them wrong. Coach Fran never forced him to keep his weight in check because he was getting the results on the field. During his Junior season he became less effective due to an increase in weight (from 260-265 is Sophomore year to 275-280 is Junior). When Sherman came to campus he told Lane that he would be moved to FB out of necessity and because he felt it was his best chance for the NFL. He explained to Lane that as a FB he would need to be in better shape (wanted him at 260-265 again) and that if he complied he would continue to get carries as well. Rather than dropping the weight as requested, Lane gained weight and proved to be completely ineffective as both a FB & RB. When faced with a former NFL coach telling him his best chance to make millions Lane chose to ignore his advice and continued to try to prove everyone wrong.

Don't get me wrong, I love Lane. He was great his Freshman, Sophomore and part of his Junior years, but he chose to ignore everyone that was telling him to control his weight. I would much rather see the Texans use the 7th round pick on a guy with a chance to at least contribute on special teams.

[CrisR]

He plays DE now. Typically college DEs translate to either DE or 3-4 OLB in the NFL. The Texans run a 4-3. When was the last time a college DE successfully transitioned to NFL 4-3 OLB. Rather than try to fit a round peg into a square hole why don't we just try to find a natural 4-3 OLB?
I think it totally depends on the player. Terrell Suggs is a good example.....yes well aware he plays in a 3-4 but also well aware that most teams in the NFL would find a place to use him. How about Greg Ellis who went from DE to LB and even tried DB......or tweeners like San Diego's Shawn Merriman, New England's Mike Vrabel, and Indianapolis' Dwight Freeney? It depends alot more heavily on the player than the position change but a 6'4" guy that weighs @240 and is said to have speed to burn sounds like the makings of an OLB in my book.

We have DRob, Bennett, Reeves & Molden. There is no way they draft a CB this high unless they expect DRob to be gone.
OH! Your the Texan fan that was impressed by Reeves last year. So we are counting on resigning D.Rob, a turn around from Bennett and Reeves and a full recovery from Molden with no injuries or other problems next year? I'll take another CB thank you.

Don't see us drafting a SS especially if we sign a FS via FA. We currently have both Barber & Harrison on the roster, 2 players suited for SS that the coaching staff is high on. If we draft a safety in this draft (and we should) it will be a FS.
Which one will be our lock down starter next year? Yeah no one else can say either. At worst Harris would be great competition and a backup LB or DB.

I stand by my original comment. We are not a good enough team at this point to be drafting a specialist this high in the draft. As much as people want it, Kubiak won't be running the wildcat anytime in the near future. They very well could draft a WR/KR/PR in this draft but if they do it will likely be 5th - 7th.
We don't need a WR/RS type.....Pat White is also a guy that could play QB and could be a top flight RB or WR potentially. Just because he is an unknow doesn't mean he doesn't have value to our team.


Arguments are easy without solutions, what would you do different?

Oh, and as far as Coffee I don't consider him that small.....not a huge back but we don't need a 250lb RB.....we just need a change of pace guy that has more thump than jump. I don't think there are many RB's in this draft I would call better than Coffee 4th round and on.

[CrisR]

Also as far as Lane goes......I'm not crazy about Vonta.......the boy can't run or catch. It would be nice to have a FB that could be counted on to advance the ball from time to time. If all he is, is a blocker put a TE or OL in the backfield. I just want another option at FB, Lane may not be the best option but I'm not super familiar with other FB options that might be available in the 7th round.

[A-B]

Also as far as Lane goes......I'm not crazy about Vonta.......the boy can't run or catch. It would be nice to have a FB that could be counted on to advance the ball from time to time. If all he is, is a blocker put a TE or OL in the backfield. I just want another option at FB, Lane may not be the best option but I'm not super familiar with other FB options that might be available in the 7th round.

Whaaaa???? Go look at the GB game again. That one hand catch was impressive. Vonta is the most underrated FB in the league. He isnt used near as much as he should be IMO.

[chjoak]

He plays DE now. Typically college DEs translate to either DE or 3-4 OLB in the NFL. The Texans run a 4-3. When was the last time a college DE successfully transitioned to NFL 4-3 OLB. Rather than try to fit a round peg into a square hole why don't we just try to find a natural 4-3 OLB?
I think it totally depends on the player. Terrell Suggs is a good example.....yes well aware he plays in a 3-4 but also well aware that most teams in the NFL would find a place to use him. How about Greg Ellis who went from DE to LB and even tried DB......or tweeners like San Diego's Shawn Merriman, New England's Mike Vrabel, and Indianapolis' Dwight Freeney? It depends alot more heavily on the player than the position change but a 6'4" guy that weighs @240 and is said to have speed to burn sounds like the makings of an OLB in my book.

Every guy you just listed either plays 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB. My challenge was for you to name a college DE that successfully transitioned to NFL 4-3 OLB.

I'm just saying that I would rather look at guys like Curry, Laurinitis (sp?) or Cushing that are actually projected to be 4-3 OLBs and/or have played LB in college.

We have DRob, Bennett, Reeves & Molden. There is no way they draft a CB this high unless they expect DRob to be gone.
OH! Your the Texan fan that was impressed by Reeves last year. So we are counting on resigning D.Rob, a turn around from Bennett and Reeves and a full recovery from Molden with no injuries or other problems next year? I'll take another CB thank you.

Again, I'm not saying we have the best CBs but our more pressing needs are FS & DE. This group of CBs will look much better if we have a better pass rush and a ballhawk FS helping over the top.

Don't see us drafting a SS especially if we sign a FS via FA. We currently have both Barber & Harrison on the roster, 2 players suited for SS that the coaching staff is high on. If we draft a safety in this draft (and we should) it will be a FS.
Which one will be our lock down starter next year? Yeah no one else can say either. At worst Harris would be great competition and a backup LB or DB.

Don't know which would be the starter next year but both would start over Harris. My point is that we already have 2 people that can play SS and would be ahead of him in the DC.

Why draft him for LB depth when he has little experience there (only played LB for a few games at OU when they had injury issues). I don't understand why you want to draft people just so we can move them to a position that they aren't used to playing.

I stand by my original comment. We are not a good enough team at this point to be drafting a specialist this high in the draft. As much as people want it, Kubiak won't be running the wildcat anytime in the near future. They very well could draft a WR/KR/PR in this draft but if they do it will likely be 5th - 7th.
We don't need a WR/RS type.....Pat White is also a guy that could play QB and could be a top flight RB or WR potentially. Just because he is an unknow doesn't mean he doesn't have value to our team.

WR/KR type is not a high priority. We have a very capable WR corp right now and we have Jacoby, Davis & Moats all capable of taking KR/PR. Again, why are you so hell bent on taking so many project players? You currently have us taking 3 players in the top 3 rounds that would be projects at the positions you suggested.

Also as far as Lane goes......I'm not crazy about Vonta.......the boy can't run or catch. It would be nice to have a FB that could be counted on to advance the ball from time to time. If all he is, is a blocker put a TE or OL in the backfield. I just want another option at FB, Lane may not be the best option but I'm not super familiar with other FB options that might be available in the 7th round.

You see that is the issue. Lane can no longer be counted on to advance the ball. He has eaten himself out of a position in the NFL. Did you watch him this past season? Did you watch the Shrine game? Outside of a couple of good catches he looked horrible. His numbers for his senior year were 35 rushes for 93yds and at the Shrine game he had 4 carries for 6yds. I have no issue bringing in competition at FB but Lane is not the answer as a lead blocker and there should be plenty of decent options available via UDFA

Arguments are easy without solutions, what would you do different?

Assuming a trade down as in your scenario, not considering FA signings and based on the latest round projections I have seen...

1. Aaron Curry OLB (Wake) or Brian Cushing OLB (USC)
- Don't like any of the 1st round DEs or FSs and I see a need at SLB. Both of these guys fit that bill. If DRob leaves I could also see Vontae Davis CB (Ill) but that's not likely.
2. Sean Smith CB/FS (Utah) or Louis Delmas FS (W. Mich) or Derek Pegues FS (MS St) or Patrick Chung SS (Ore)
- Prefer Smith, Delmas or Pegues for their coverage skills but I could see Chung for his speed and headhunting abilities. Only list Chung at this point because he could challenge for a starting spot.
3a. Philip Hunt DE (Hou) or Shonn Greene HB (Iowa) or Ron Brace DT (BC)
- Depends on who is available. 1st choice is Greene but he is likely gone in the 2nd. I would be happy with either Hunt or Brace here because both could start and both would fill needs. Hunt ended his season with 18.5 TFL & 14 sacks. He would be good value at this point and a candidate to start opposite Mario. Brace would be the huge run stopping NT we need to allow Okoye a little more freedom to rush the passer.
3b. Johnathan Luigs OC (Ark) or Andy Levitre OG (OR St)
- We need to upgrade OC & RG. Luigs would be 1st choice. If he is gone snag Levitre. Philip Hunt or Ron Brace could be an option here if Greene is available in the previous pick.
4. Eric Wood OC (Lou) or one of the guys from 3b or Xavier Fulton OT (Ill)
- 1st chioce is one of the guys from 3b. Could go either way if they are both gone. Wood is a good C that could compete for the starting spot and has the build to shift to RG if Luigs is drafted in the 3rd. Fulton is currently a OT but could easily move to RG and has the athletism for a ZBS.
5. Herb Donaldson HB (W Ill) or Gartrell Johnson HB (Col St) or Zack Follet OLB (Cal)
- Both good fits for the one cut Power running game. I think Kubiak goes with Johnson. Depending on how the combines go and who we have picked in other areas I may consider a QB in this spot as well. Follet or a QB would be the pick if we snagged Greene earlier in the draft.
6. Ryan Mouton CB (Hawaii)
- 5-10 182 with sub 4.4 speed. Sounds like Kubiak's next CB project and special teams guy. Has also done some KRs including a return for TD.
7. Michael Bennett DE (TAMU)
- Does not have the numbers show for his abilities but he has good measurables and a great motor. He is the product of 4 years (RS - Jr) with a poor coaching staff. The staff his senior year was much better but they were dealing with a number of issues on D. He received high marks from the scouts at the Shrine game but many questioned his attitude. He does not have character issues. He is just cocky like his brother (Martellus Bennett TE Dal). Could be a good contributor on special teams while the coaches work on his pass rushing technique.

[blake1776]

Also as far as Lane goes......I'm not crazy about Vonta.......the boy can't run or catch. It would be nice to have a FB that could be counted on to advance the ball from time to time. If all he is, is a blocker put a TE or OL in the backfield. I just want another option at FB, Lane may not be the best option but I'm not super familiar with other FB options that might be available in the 7th round.

WTF... Have you been watching any games? Look at me, I can pull statements out of my ***.

[CrisR]

WTF... Have you been watching any games? Look at me, I can pull statements out of my ***.


Yes his 12 catches really made the difference this year for us.......oh but wait 2nd lowest completion percentage on the team to Andre Davis......

But his career 3 rushing attempts also makes up for alot of dropped balls.

[CrisR]

Every guy you just listed either plays 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB. My challenge was for you to name a college DE that successfully transitioned to NFL 4-3 OLB.

Since when does Indy play in a 3-4? Also do you know what the difference in the Texans playing a 4-3 or a 3-4 would be? 4-3 would mean you would have a guy like Montgomery at DE with Maybin at OLB. A 3-4 means don't sign Montgomery and let Maybin switch between DE and OLB......WOW HUGE DIFFERENCE!


Again, I'm not saying we have the best CBs but our more pressing needs are FS & DE. This group of CBs will look much better if we have a better pass rush and a ballhawk FS helping over the top.
If we signed a DE, FS and RB where would our pressing need be?


WR/KR type is not a high priority. We have a very capable WR corp right now and we have Jacoby, Davis & Moats all capable of taking KR/PR. Again, why are you so hell bent on taking so many project players? You currently have us taking 3 players in the top 3 rounds that would be projects at the positions you suggested.
Playing a guy that projects as a OLB at OLB isn't something I would call a project. Adding a CB to add quality depth at CB isn't exactly a project. As far as Nic Harris.......SS is his best position and one could make an arguement that he is better than any in house option we have currently. Harris will no doubt improve handedly with coaching and more time at 1 position.

Also, I'll get killed on the board for this but Walter should be our #3 possesion WR. We need another guy with hands and speed that could help take some of the double team off AJ. Doing that would open up our passing game even more.

Texans have a real shot at doing something special.

[chjoak]

Since when does Indy play in a 3-4? Also do you know what the difference in the Texans playing a 4-3 or a 3-4 would be? 4-3 would mean you would have a guy like Montgomery at DE with Maybin at OLB. A 3-4 means don't sign Montgomery and let Maybin switch between DE and OLB......WOW HUGE DIFFERENCE!

Never said Indy played 3-4, but Freeney is a DE. Doesn't change my argument.

Do you know anything about football? There is actually a big difference between a 3-4 & 4-3. There is a reason why it typically takes 2-3 seasons for a team to transition between the two. The positions are actually very different. The DEs & LBs in each system will differ greatly. You cannot automatically interchange a 3-4 OLB to 4-3 DE. It will work sometimes but often a 3-4 OLB is at best a situational 4-3 DE and for a first round pick we need more than a situational player.

If we signed a DE, FS and RB where would our pressing need be?

Well as others noted, your choices for RB & DE are not good. Benson will never be a Texan and we would be better off keeping Weaver vs signing Montgomery.

Playing a guy that projects as a OLB at OLB isn't something I would call a project. Adding a CB to add quality depth at CB isn't exactly a project.

I was referring to Maybin, White & Harris.
- Maybin would be a project at 4-3 OLB. As noted by most scouting reports he is also very raw (only 20) and is being drafted on potential alone.
- White is a project because he will have to be moved to a position he has not played for at least 4 years or maybe even ever.
- I listed Harris in this argument because you made the point a couple times that he could be used as LB depth when that is not his natural position.

As far as Nic Harris.......SS is his best position and one could make an arguement that he is better than any in house option we have currently. Harris will no doubt improve handedly with coaching and more time at 1 position.

You could make the argument but again you say he needs coaching and time at the position. That makes him a project. With a 3rd round pick I would rather have a player that has a chance of being on the 2 deep his rookie season. We have 2 SSs on the roster now that are young, more than capable and have been in the system for 1-2 seasons. If they perform poorly next season we can make SS a priority in 2010.

Also, I'll get killed on the board for this but Walter should be our #3 possesion WR. We need another guy with hands and speed that could help take some of the double team off AJ. Doing that would open up our passing game even more.

I won't argue with the logic of Walter being the possession WR but I don't think finding a #2 should be a priority for 2009. Our current WR corp has performed well and has us as one of the top offenses in the NFL. If we fill our current needs (FS, DE, OLB, Power HB, C, RG) and everything works out then our needs in 2010 will be much less and we will have the luxury of drafting BPA to fill in depth. Under this best case scenario I figure we target WR, DT, LB, QB & OL depth in 2010.

[B.Diddy]

Also as far as Lane goes......I'm not crazy about Vonta.......the boy can't run or catch. It would be nice to have a FB that could be counted on to advance the ball from time to time. If all he is, is a blocker put a TE or OL in the backfield. I just want another option at FB, Lane may not be the best option but I'm not super familiar with other FB options that might be available in the 7th round.

This statement alone shows your vast football knowledge...Im just taking a stab in the dark here.. but i think i can assume CrisR Watches more fantasy football games than Football Games.

[B.Diddy]

Yes his 12 catches really made the difference this year for us.......oh but wait 2nd lowest completion percentage on the team to Andre Davis......

But his career 3 rushing attempts also makes up for alot of dropped balls.

Again i ask "Are you freakin serious" Leach can catch leach can run but more than anything leach can plow open a hole and make pancakes out of Definsive palyers. Ask Steve Slaton why he led all rookies and almost the afc in running and i promise hell tell you because leach left a hole big enough for a mack truck to drive through. Even Ron Dayne looked good running behind leach. The reason he isn't running more is because Kubiak dosen't want to use him for that......But lets get serious LANE ...are you really serious Lane you down talk one of the best fullbacks in the league and bring up Chubbums Lane wow im speachless

[CrisR]

Again i ask "Are you freakin serious" Leach can catch leach can run but more than anything leach can plow open a hole and make pancakes out of Definsive palyers. Ask Steve Slaton why he led all rookies and almost the afc in running and i promise hell tell you because leach left a hole big enough for a mack truck to drive through. Even Ron Dayne looked good running behind leach. The reason he isn't running more is because Kubiak dosen't want to use him for that......But lets get serious LANE ...are you really serious Lane you down talk one of the best fullbacks in the league and bring up Chubbums Lane wow im speachless

Well you maybe speachless but you still can't read. You talk about how great of a runner Vonta is but he has 3 career rushes! As a reciever 12 catches this year and nearly 40% of passes thrown to him ended as dropped passes!

Yes he can block, I have never said he couldn't! I never said I want him off the team, heck I never said I wanted to replace him! What I did say is that I'm not sold on him because he can't run or catch, I just want an OPTION to him that could move the football as well as blocking. Lord knows this team couldn't use a short yardage back that could pick up those grind em out yards and TD's! HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY SARCASIM!

That is the only reason I brought up Jaws Lane......not that I think he is great, not that I liked him in college....but I figured there might be an outside shot at him becoming a decent 7th round pick and an OPTION at FB. Again I'm so sorry if I'm not well versed on potential 7th round pick FB's for the upcoming draft.

As far as fantasy football..........never played it......Horns on Saturday and Texans on Sunday......

[chjoak]

FBs that are expected to be 6th - UDFA

Eric Kettani, Navy
Height: 5-11. Weight: 231.
Projected 40 Time: 4.56.
Projected Round (2009): 6-7.
Rushed for 982 yards and four touchdowns as a senior. Should be an effective short-yardage back at the next level.

Mark Hafner, Houston
Height: 6-2. Weight: 235.
Projected 40 Time: 4.74.
Projected Round (2009): 7.
Pass-catching fullback, caught 86 passes for 907 yards and 11 touchdowns in 2008.

Zeek Zacharie, Louisiana-Monroe
Height: 6-2. Weight: 238.
Projected 40 Time: 4.62.
Projected Round (2009): FA.
46 receptions, 510 yards and four touchdowns in 2008.

Brock Bolen, Louisville
Height: 6-0. Weight: 239.
Projected 40 Time: 4.70.
Projected Round (2009): FA.
Rushed for 505 yards and seven touchdowns as a senior.

I don't have any issue bringing any of these guys in for another offensive weapon but I would rather not spend a pick on them when most will likely be UDFAs. Most teams don't draft FBs anymore.

[CrisR]

Never said Indy played 3-4, but Freeney is a DE. Doesn't change my argument.

Do you know anything about football? There is actually a big difference between a 3-4 & 4-3. There is a reason why it typically takes 2-3 seasons for a team to transition between the two. The positions are actually very different. The DEs & LBs in each system will differ greatly. You cannot automatically interchange a 3-4 OLB to 4-3 DE. It will work sometimes but often a 3-4 OLB is at best a situational 4-3 DE and for a first round pick we need more than a situational player.

Well as others noted, your choices for RB & DE are not good. Benson will never be a Texan and we would be better off keeping Weaver vs signing Montgomery.

I was referring to Maybin, White & Harris.
- Maybin would be a project at 4-3 OLB. As noted by most scouting reports he is also very raw (only 20) and is being drafted on potential alone.
- White is a project because he will have to be moved to a position he has not played for at least 4 years or maybe even ever.
- I listed Harris in this argument because you made the point a couple times that he could be used as LB depth when that is not his natural position.



You could make the argument but again you say he needs coaching and time at the position. That makes him a project. With a 3rd round pick I would rather have a player that has a chance of being on the 2 deep his rookie season. We have 2 SSs on the roster now that are young, more than capable and have been in the system for 1-2 seasons. If they perform poorly next season we can make SS a priority in 2010.



I won't argue with the logic of Walter being the possession WR but I don't think finding a #2 should be a priority for 2009. Our current WR corp has performed well and has us as one of the top offenses in the NFL. If we fill our current needs (FS, DE, OLB, Power HB, C, RG) and everything works out then our needs in 2010 will be much less and we will have the luxury of drafting BPA to fill in depth. Under this best case scenario I figure we target WR, DT, LB, QB & OL depth in 2010.

#1 Let me say this first, I don't want to sign any big name FA's and I don't want to have to count on the draft to fill holes. I would rather be able to draft to improve our teams deep & quality. A 3-4 front for us would be M.Will on 1 side Okam or TJ at NT and Okoye at the other with Maybin as a rover OLB/DE and same LB corps we have. I agree for most teams the transition is difficult but we have very capable and athletic players on the DL and at LB.

#2 Benson is not a good choice for RB, never said he was. Said he would make sense big difference. As far as DE's outside of Peppers none stand out to me. I don't want to see the Texans dump alot of money on FA's when we need to resign our core guys.

#3 Maybin is raw and would be drafted on "potential alone." And this would be different from anyone else EVER drafted how? He wouldn't be counted on to start from Day 1 IMO as the LB's are somewhat set with Adibi, Ryans and Diles.
As far as Pat White....should the Texans draft a potential future QB or potential future backup QB? Sage is gone after this year. Pat White COULD play SOME QB if needed in an emergency role, while honing his skills at another position such as a #2 WR, so is it a pick of need? NO, why do all picks have to be picks of need???? And if you have the POTENTIAL to fill 2 holes with 1 guy go for it.
Nic Harris, as a Horns fan I hate him. As a football fan and a Texans fan the guy has an X factor to him IMO. Maybe I'm way off base, maybe I'm not. But I think having a solid position and solid coaching turns this guy into a pro bowler.

[CrisR]

Chjoak...........thanks I was just going to look up some.......2 TE's that might fit that mold also would be Marquez Branson of Central Arkansas & David Johnson of Arkansas State. Both are @ 6'2" 245lbs. Both have great hands Johnson is a good blocker as well.

Also as far as the 7th round......the way I view the 7th round is it is the round you take guy you most want out of the guys you expect to be undrafted. I agree most fullbacks are not drafted......neither are kickers but it does happen.

[B.Diddy]

im actully one of the few that think Pat White would be a Good NFL QB (if put in the right system) If you study his play the kid has all the tools Quick feet for roll outs and play action a strong arm and is very accurate. The only knock on him isn't his play its his system it's not his fault coach Rodriguez (probably mispelled sorry ) played him in the Career killing spread option offense. But if you payed attention to his last bowl game the guy can flat out throw it. I would use a 5th-7th on him as a QB/wr

[chjoak]

#1 Let me say this first, I don't want to sign any big name FA's and I don't want to have to count on the draft to fill holes. I would rather be able to draft to improve our teams deep & quality. A 3-4 front for us would be M.Will on 1 side Okam or TJ at NT and Okoye at the other with Maybin as a rover OLB/DE and same LB corps we have. I agree for most teams the transition is difficult but we have very capable and athletic players on the DL and at LB.

Since when are we going 3-4? We would be eaten alive by the run if we went 3-4 with our current lineman and lack of LB depth. That and Mario would be wasted in a 3-4. In a properly run 3-4 the DL is not really counted on to get sacks. There job is to plug up holes and take on multiple blockers so the faster LBs can get to the QB.

#2 Benson is not a good choice for RB, never said he was. Said he would make sense big difference. As far as DE's outside of Peppers none stand out to me. I don't want to see the Texans dump alot of money on FA's when we need to resign our core guys.

I agree but I don't see why we need to sign a RB. We've seen how well that has treated us the last few seasons. We currently have Slaton, Moats and Green (when healthy) that can take care of the bulk of the running we just need a guy who get get the job done in the RZ. That can easily be picked up in the later rounds of the draft without the cost or baggage that Benson would bring.

I don't think we need to sign a FA DE either. I think Weaver is fine for rushing downs. In the draft we either need to find an every down DE (that will be expected to start) or a pass rusher specialist (will need to work on run D so he can start in a season or 2).

#3 Maybin is raw and would be drafted on "potential alone." And this would be different from anyone else EVER drafted how? He wouldn't be counted on to start from Day 1 IMO as the LB's are somewhat set with Adibi, Ryans and Diles.

With a few exceptions, most 1st round picks are expected to start their rookie season. Especially when they are taken in the upper 2/3rds of the round. The Texans are on the brink of being something good. I don't think we can afford to spend high picks on guys that we don't expect to start immediately. I also stand by my original argument that the transition from 4-3 DE to 4-3 OLB will be a steeper learning curve than you expect. We need our 1st rd pick to be a significant contributor next season not 2-3 seasons down the road.

As far as Pat White....should the Texans draft a potential future QB or potential future backup QB? Sage is gone after this year. Pat White COULD play SOME QB if needed in an emergency role, while honing his skills at another position such as a #2 WR, so is it a pick of need? NO, why do all picks have to be picks of need???? And if you have the POTENTIAL to fill 2 holes with 1 guy go for it.

Pat White can play emergency QB but so can Owen Daniels. White will likely never be an NFL QB and considering he is not a natural WR, I think you are getting a little ahead of yourself assuming he can be a #2 WR.

All picks don't have to be a pick of need, but when you are a few pieces short of your first ever winning season and potential playoff berth you need to address those needs rather than adding luxury.

Nic Harris, as a Horns fan I hate him. As a football fan and a Texans fan the guy has an X factor to him IMO. Maybe I'm way off base, maybe I'm not. But I think having a solid position and solid coaching turns this guy into a pro bowler.

I'll give you that. He is a solid SS with good potential. However, my point is still valid. We need a FS and unless we sign a FA FS (I like the guy from St L) I would be pissed if we drafted another SS when our true need is a centerfielder. I am also a little biased against Harris because he plays dirty. I've seen him take too many cheap shots on opposing players and I would rather not have that on the team.

[Whiskeyrbl]

Maybin will be top 20 if not top 10-15.

You may be right on Maybin going up the charts. However as of right now he is listed as the #4 DE, which probably puts him in early to mid 2nd rd. I have to agree with the earlier poster that said he is a project. He is only 236 lbs. He will get manhandled by 90% of the OT's in the NFL. At 15 or even if we traded down in the first rd, I don't think the Texans can afford to pick a "project" player at this point. We need a player ready to contribute Day 1 of training camp.

[CrisR]

Since when are we going 3-4? We would be eaten alive by the run if we went 3-4 with our current lineman and lack of LB depth. That and Mario would be wasted in a 3-4. In a properly run 3-4 the DL is not really counted on to get sacks. There job is to plug up holes and take on multiple blockers so the faster LBs can get to the QB.

I agree but I don't see why we need to sign a RB. We've seen how well that has treated us the last few seasons. We currently have Slaton, Moats and Green (when healthy) that can take care of the bulk of the running we just need a guy who get get the job done in the RZ. That can easily be picked up in the later rounds of the draft without the cost or baggage that Benson would bring.

I don't think we need to sign a FA DE either. I think Weaver is fine for rushing downs. In the draft we either need to find an every down DE (that will be expected to start) or a pass rusher specialist (will need to work on run D so he can start in a season or 2).

With a few exceptions, most 1st round picks are expected to start their rookie season. Especially when they are taken in the upper 2/3rds of the round. The Texans are on the brink of being something good. I don't think we can afford to spend high picks on guys that we don't expect to start immediately. I also stand by my original argument that the transition from 4-3 DE to 4-3 OLB will be a steeper learning curve than you expect. We need our 1st rd pick to be a significant contributor next season not 2-3 seasons down the road.

Pat White can play emergency QB but so can Owen Daniels. White will likely never be an NFL QB and considering he is not a natural WR, I think you are getting a little ahead of yourself assuming he can be a #2 WR.

All picks don't have to be a pick of need, but when you are a few pieces short of your first ever winning season and potential playoff berth you need to address those needs rather than adding luxury.

I'll give you that. He is a solid SS with good potential. However, my point is still valid. We need a FS and unless we sign a FA FS (I like the guy from St L) I would be pissed if we drafted another SS when our true need is a centerfielder. I am also a little biased against Harris because he plays dirty. I've seen him take too many cheap shots on opposing players and I would rather not have that on the team.

I think we are on the same page just taking different things away from it. I had the Texans trading back to #23 with the Pats AFTER signing a DE, FS & RB through FA. At #23 Maybin would not be a bad pick, at #15 he would not. Also at #23 that would be the latter 1/3 of the 1st round meaning he would be expected to contribute but not start.
I wouldn't say we don't need another RB, as we need a power punch kinda guy.........sadly enough this is my reason for not being a bigger fan of Vonta. If the Texans had the guy that they could count on, on short yardage this team would be much improved.
We need another pass rushing DE, Weaver is OK at best. Again I'm not saying anyone in FA is the answer other than Peppers. That said why not bring in some guys that are not top dollar as our in house guys are not cutting it.

Pat White would just be another weapon. And in my scenario would be free more or less, using the extra pick I suggested we would get from New England. Maybin and White to move back 8 spots wouldn't be to bad.

Harris does take cheap shots......so does Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Troy Polamula, Urlacher......it's a common thing with LB's or guys with a LB mentality....all the more reason to make me think he would be a star once given a true role. I do follow the logic of we have enough SS'. But #'s and talent are 2 different things. Neither guy has shown much yet but haven't been around much either. I'm not saying they can't cut it, I'm saying if I was doing the draft for the Texans and there was a WR or RB on the board that would be a clear upgrade even AJ or Slaton I would take them. You have to draft to improve the team.

2 last things...........Alan Page from KC is my choice for now as a FA FS as Gibbs knows him well and has coached him so it would make sense, Bartell is the only FA I see from St.Louis but he is a CB. Mike Brown from the Bears would be my pick but he will cost to much.

[chjoak]

I understand your reasoning. I'm just saying that the Texans are not quite to the point where we can afford to draft a player in the 1st round that will not be projected as an immediate starter (regardless of which position we draft in, 15 or lower). This in part because the Texans front office won't spend the money to bring in a player of the caliber we need at DE (don't disagree with this at all). So for DE we either need a starter (1st round) or a backup/pass rush specialist/project somewhere lower in the draft. I have nothing against Maybin. I just don't see him as good fit for the Texans.

My personal favorite in a trade down scenario is Brian Cushing out of USC. He is a versitile athlete (has played safety, SLB and pass rush DE), has played primarily SLB in a 4-3 base D and he has the necessary size (6'3" 255) and strength to effectively play SLB in the NFL (a need for us since both Diles & Adibi are more WLBs). I think he also fits the new DCs gameplan due to his pass rushing ability from the SLB position plus he can immediately start and improve our run D.

Brains stats this past season playing SLB
YEAR TOT SOLO AST SACK STF STFY FF BK INT YDS AVG LNG TD PD
2008 74 48 26 3 0 0 1 0 1 0 0.0 0 0 0

[TRUTXN]

Below are a few descriptions to clarify the vast differences a player must go through to switch from a 4-3 DE to a 3-4 OLB and vise versa.

First of all 4-3 DE's line up closer to the ball with their hands on the ground, this gives the offensive lineman a better chance to get their hands on the DE's and reduces reaction time for the DE's. Their vision is more limited because they must react to the snap of the ball and then try to diagnose the play. It takes a lot more strength to get past the offensive linemen, consider it more of a one on one battle, and this does not account for double teams. It takes a true DE to play in a 4-3 scheme.

The 3-4 scheme was developed as a "hybrid" defense to keep the more athletic linebacker types on the field. The DE in a 3-4 scheme is more of a "space eater" (quicker DT's) and does not usually attack the QB as much as they do in a 4-3 scheme. They are used to keep blockers off of the quicker LBs behind them. This allows the OLB's to react and "shoot the gaps", which helps them rack up large sack numbers since they do not have to deal with the 300 + lb tackles every down. DE's in the 3-4 scheme do not NORMALLY lead their teams in sacks, the OLBs do (i.e. Ware, Harrison, & Merriman).

OLBs in the 3-4 scheme rush from a standing position most of the time, this gives them a better view of the entire field and allows them to read the flow of the play. Unlike a 4-3 DE, they see the entire play developing and can attack any angle of the offense. 3-4 OLBs must be very instinctive so they are in the right place and do not run themselves out of the play. It’s nearly impossible to double team a 3-4 OLB consistently. On the other hand 4-3 DEs can be doubled every play by pushing the TE to their side. A 4-3 DE does not have to use "as many" reaction skills because they are either attacking the QB, stretching the play wide, holding their spot, or dropping into coverage.

With this said, unless Maybin is very, very strong, he will get destroyed as a 4-3 DE at his current weight. There are offensive linemen in this league that can throw 240lbs 10 yds. It’s true that his speed will help him, but tackles will just run him past the play (past QB, QB will step into pocket). He would be much better off in a 3-4 scheme so he can react, shoot the gaps, and not worry as much about double teams.

Many people like to say that if Freeney can do it, anyone can. I tell those people to look at the tape and tell me when the Colts have ever been good against the run, never (They made Ron Dayne look like Walter Payton). Freeney gets his share of sacks because his quickness and relentless motor, but he also gets ran past plays and pancake’d ALOT. Mario is the ideal DE, not Freeney.

Who knows what the future holds for any of the drafted DE's, but I hope we spend our money in FA on our d-line (Haynesworth or Peppers), then draft a safety.

[thompsw8]

Not sure if anyone has seen this but Mel Kiper has us taking Everett Brown DE/Florida St with the 15th pick with Vontae Davis going 1 pick before us. Maybin and Curry were both taken in the top 10 picks. I think Vontae Davis or a good pass rushing DE is what we need in first round and if we can't get either we should trade down.

[TexasJedi]

Not sure if anyone has seen this but Mel Kiper has us taking Everett Brown DE/Florida St with the 15th pick with Vontae Davis going 1 pick before us. Maybin and Curry were both taken in the top 10 picks. I think Vontae Davis or a good pass rushing DE is what we need in first round and if we can't get either we should trade down.
Everett Brown would be an awesome pick and make us forget about Peppers.

[khlonghorn]

there is no value at SS in the first so IMO, it will be either a DE or LB in the first. I would love curry but unless we trade up we wont get him. we need help at the second level so i go for a LB in rnd 1. laurinitis, r maualagua or cushing are not dazzling choices but they are solid players. It seems LBs can fill in as a rookie much quicker than any other position. Plus LB class is relatively thin this year. like every offseason i see us bringing in FAs at lb more or less from a depth standpoint.

If orakpo/brown are there at 15 (doubtful), these are no brainers at DE in rnd 1. Micheal johnson is projected soley on his upside and has the potential to have a build like mario or peppers (needs to bulk up >20lbs)but is a reach at 15.

Also, ive noticed people mention we need a FS above a SS. Correct me if i am mistaken but wilson is our FS and made a huge difference in the 2ndary since being inserted to the starting line up. our current SS leave much to be desired. harrison (when played) was continuously burnt at SS. barber has seen limited playing time and ferguson is getting older. I feel we need a strong presence in run support and a hard hitter over the middle. I like Chung or hamiln from clemson in the 2nd.

If either orakpo or brown dont fall to 15, i like jarron gilbert in rnd 3 (if he falls this low. looks like the e/w shrine and combine may increase his stock). I personally would like to see our DE brought in during FA - either suggs or berry.

im also a big advocate of drafting a qb this year which is why im going with graham harrell in the 4th. bash it all you want but hes my guy! if we dont go qb in the 4th, i wouldnt mind taking a flyer on john parker wilson in the late rounds (6 or 7) or possibly as an undrafted FA.

in the 5th, id take a corner for sp. teams, depth and a project. morgan trent from Mich or bruce johnson from the U stand out late in the draft.

I saw someone else mention this guy earlier but Gartrell Johnson from Col State would be a good fit in the 6th. He was in Gibbs' ZBS at Col State and has the size and speed to be a perfect complement to SS. I would also consider taking him a few rounds earlier if there is a run on RBs in the mid-late rounds. Personally I see C. Taylor coming back next year and picking up a value FA at RB.

7th is just best avail.

but, Im still missing a OC, OG and DT. so goes to show what a crap shoot my mock draft is. oh well, its fun researching these guys and playing couch GM. if Rick smith continues to draft well, we are in good shape.

i hate to say but i think i love the business season of the NFL as much as the real season.

texans of 09 are the cardinals of 08.

[greedimidi]

Every guy you just listed either plays 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB. My challenge was for you to name a college DE that successfully transitioned to NFL 4-3 OLB.

mathias kiwanuka

omar gaither

[TheLBCoach]

mathias kiwanuka

jared gaither

Jared Gaither is the starting LT for the Baltimore Ravens.

[greedimidi]

jared gaither is the starting lt for the baltimore ravens.

correction....i meant omar gaither....wlb for the eagles

[A-B]

Everett Brown would be an awesome pick and make us forget about Peppers.

Is he the one that Kiper had us picking? I think he was like 3rd in the nation in sacks. I suck at remembering names.

[TexasJedi]

Is he the one that Kiper had us picking? I think he was like 3rd in the nation in sacks. I suck at remembering names.
Yes, that's the guy Kiper has us picking. I have a sucspicion that he will move up the draft board after the combine and workouts. I hope I'm wrong though.

[CrisR]

Texans FO seems intent on resigning D.Rob and Eugene Wilson so FS is not as much of a concern for us as we all thought.

With that in mind our big needs would still be a DE, SLB, a power RB & an upgrade on the O Line either at C or RG.

DE...not alot of great options out there but will be the 1 spot the Texans will should be willing to spend some money on a FA. Antonio Smith of the Cards might be target #1 for a DE. I still like Montgomery as well, just to a lesser degree.

SLB...Karlos Dansby was my first thought over all, however he will cost too much money for us with D.Ryans needing a new contract. That would be too much invested in LB's. I also thought about M.Boley of the Falcons, he would be a great fit but has some character concerns quickly taking him off the list. Angelo Crowell of the Bills would be a nice late signing if he shows he is healthy.

RB...Benson was never all that big on my list even to me. After re-evaluating the FA RB group.......Maurice Morris of Seattle is our guy to back up Slaton. His power, quickness and running style fit our needs...oh and he can catch.

Center....Geoff Hangartner of the Panthers........just so happens to be a top notch young center who played at Texas A&M and grew up in Houston. Oh, Panthers already run a Zone blocking scheme as well. This should allow Myers to compete with Briesel for the RG spot which I think he is better at.

QB....Kyle Boller, guy never got a decent QB coach until this year and he was beat out. Boller could prove to be a decent backup. Sage is gone after 09 and Schuab is in a do or die type of year. But would the Texans keep the QB's on the roster?

Brings us to the draft.....

#15 Brian Cushing SLB/USC.......CHJOAK, you where right! After going over more film this is the guy we want in the 1st round.

2nd Connor Barwin DE/Cincinnati
3rd Texans FO said you can never have to many CB's. Mark Parson CB/Ohio
4th Marko Mitchell WR/Nevada
5th Pannel Egboh DE/Stanford
6th Cedric Dockery OG/Texas
7th Ryan Palmer CB/Texas

[CrisR]

There seems to be some steriod talk surrounding him but it all seems to stem from a photo.........guy seems like the exact type of guy we target.....

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80e50e52

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9uyPcI0KAs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_vtDlADHJo&feature=related


Will give more links to other players as I refind them.

[CrisR]

Mark Parson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYGnXm3zE_E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=On-w7Bc3EzY&feature=related

[CrisR]

However, that said I'm going to thrown another QB name in the ring. Brian Brohm of the Packers.

Yes I'm well aware that he was only drafted last year. However, he isn't fitting in with the Pack. Coming out last year he was most often compared to Matt Schaub. Packers new defensive cordinator, Dom Capers is switching them to a 3-4. One must wonder if the Texans wouldn't approach the Packers about a Travis Johnson for Brian Brohm trade.

After the Texans sign a DE, look for them to target O-line help.......that's when you will hear Geoff Hargartners/Panthers name start popping up