Greatest Receiver Ever

[TheReaver]

So I was listening to Mike and Mike the other morning and they began talking about the greatest players ever in their sport. They came to the conclusion that Jerry Rice is basically the only player where there is no argument that he is the greatest ever in his sport. Well I have an argument.

It's really hard to compare guys at certain positions, especially receiver, because their production and greatness is so dependent on others. I mean it's pretty simple, the guys who threw Rice the ball are superstar hall of famers, Young and Montana. This is kind of unfair because when he left San Fran he was kinda washed up, but he did nothing without those guys. I wonder how great he would have been with David Carr trying to throw him the ball with about two seconds maximum to get open.

You really can't compare guys based on stats alone, so I would put forth that considering Andre is bigger, faster, stronger than Rice; plus he produced even with David Carr attemting to pass the ball that he is a better receiver than Rice. (I realize that this also brings "Eras" into consideration but I think we need to accept that guys from 40 years ago mostly wouldn't be able to compete these days). There are probably a handful of other guys you could make this argument for.

What do you guys think, am I way off base here and Mike and Mike are right and Rice is hands down the greatest of all time?(Since I mentioned Andre I am talking Texans football right? :P)

[foozball]

true, in a sense. rice still has to run routes, get open, catch the ball, and run away from tacklers

calvin johnson led the league in TDs and was 5th in the league with 1331 yards with that awful QB.

[playa465]

The same can be said that Jerry Rice's numbers helped make Joe and Steve HOFers. Jerry Rice set the modern bar, if you watch his work at the line of scrimmage on his release there was none better. He made catches over the middle, deep and alot of the 1 handed grabs that are now looked at as super catches...he performed at very high levels and was a professional at all times and his speed wasn't considered blazing. During his early years and even once he was considered the best he trained hard every year...its not his numbers alone as to why he is considered the greatest.

[TLW]

Jerry Rice is the best receiver of all time to me.

So far.

[musicman8251]

yeah you gotta realize that great recievers like Calvin johnson, AJ, Fitz, all shape their game after Rice. AJ has said this himself. also you also have to remember that Rice helped take a washed up rich gannon to the super bowl when he was like 40 years old so i wouldnt say he was "washed up".

[wildroot]

To me the great recievers are the ones that can go up in the air when they're being blanketed and come down with the ball. Rice, Stallworth, Swan and Moss are 4 recievers that did that consistently throughout their careers. Catching the "uncatchable" balls, the throws that were'nt on the numbers. I think that's the one thing AJ has to show before I put him up there with those 4. As good as AJ is, I haven't seen him make those impossible miracle acrobatic catches that would put him up there with the elite of the elite.

[kevin]

To me the great recievers are the ones that can go up in the air when they're being blanketed and come down with the ball. Rice, Stallworth, Swan and Moss are 4 recievers that did that consistently throughout their careers. Catching the "uncatchable" balls, the throws that were'nt on the numbers. I think that's the one thing AJ has to show before I put him up there with those 4. As good as AJ is, I haven't seen him make those impossible miracle acrobatic catches that would put him up there with the elite of the elite.

Did u not watch the dolphins game and the titians game at home. in the game against the dolphins he took the ball away from the defender. The colts game he went over finnegan. he can make the grewat catches. but he isnt at the level of a jerry rice YET.

[TEXANBRONCO]

i wouldnt agree about RICE being the GREATEST.....lmao.... maybe if i was from SAN FRANSYSCO he might be. he did school TO though..... but here in TEXAS people would laugh at that....i see AJ goin to the top....and thats all i have to say about that:D

[wildroot]

Did u not watch the dolphins game and the titians game at home. in the game against the dolphins he took the ball away from the defender. The colts game he went over finnegan. he can make the grewat catches. but he isnt at the level of a jerry rice YET.

I don't mean to say AJs never made a difficult catch, he's made some great ones! But those 4 I mentioned, if the ball was in their zip code they'd come down with the ball. I think AJ is on the cusp of being able to do that consistently. Also, especially this last year, I saw him drop several easy ones...he's gotta stop that if he wants to be mentioned with Rice.

[InterestedJeff]

I am a HUGE Andre Johnson fan and you will rarley hear me put up arguments against his greatness. With that said, I can see 2 areas where Rice trumps AJ. First, Rice consistantly produces for more than 10 years. Second, Rice came up with huge catches on the game's biggest stage.

Now in another 5 years Andre could make both of those points mute. For now though, Rice is still ahead of our boy down here in Houston.

[zanth91]

Jerry Rice has the stats from a very sucessful scheme. Imaging if we (the Texans) had a 2008 offense every year with Andre Johnson. What then?

[TheReaver]

To me the point is that there is a debate that can be made. Obviously Andre has a long way to go in his career, but to me the greatest ever means you are starting a team and it comes time to pick the first receiver. Rice probably has Andre in route running and finding holes in a zone, but Andre is just so scary with that size and speed. I would take both Andre and Randy Moss before Rice. (BTW I'm not saying Andre doesn't find holes or run good routes, it's just that was how Jerry got by).

[D Frank]

Jerry Rice has the stats from a very sucessful scheme. Imaging if we (the Texans) had a 2008 offense every year with Andre Johnson. What then?

well the way I see it is bottom line-AJ has EVERYTHING to be a GREAT GREAT
reciever. IF we keep our same offense and Matt is healthy, I wanna see AJ
do somethin like Chad Johnson did, was it like 6 straight years of 1000 yards?
but anyway, AJ makes the catches the great wr's sposed to make, and some dude said up there ^
that he seen aj drop many easy passes, according to http://sports.iwon.com/nfl/stats/league/passesdropped.html
aj dropped 5 this year.

[South Texan]

I have a real problem with naming any player the greatest player ever. Football is a team sport.

If a WR is the only talented receiver on the team, the defense can double and triple cover him. If the QB is not a good passer, the WR's numbers will not be nearly as good. If the O-Line can't give the QB time to pass the WR suffers. If the running back can't pick up a blitz it's less balls passed to the WR. If the running game is not respectable, there are more people to go after the WR. If the team needs a WR to block too often, his numbers go down.

AJ has demonstrated that he has the physical skills, and more important the mental skills to be one of the greatest.
Walter and Owen are both very talented in their own right.
The O-Line seemed to be improving every week as they get more familiar with the ZBS.
Matt has shown he can throw the ball.
"Sleepy" has shown he is not only a good runner but also will throw a block when needed.
I think the ingrediants are all there for people to be comparing receivers to AJ a few years down the road.

[TexanJim]

Apples and oranges. There is no way you can compare AJ with Rice at this point in AJ's career. It would be premature to do so. The only fair comparison would be after AJ retires, then you can compare stats, Super Bowl rings, etc.

[musicman8251]

To me the point is that there is a debate that can be made. Obviously Andre has a long way to go in his career, but to me the greatest ever means you are starting a team and it comes time to pick the first receiver. Rice probably has Andre in route running and finding holes in a zone, but Andre is just so scary with that size and speed. I would take both Andre and Randy Moss before Rice. (BTW I'm not saying Andre doesn't find holes or run good routes, it's just that was how Jerry got by).

AJ is the best RIGHT NOW and prolly for a long time BUT there is no way (right now) that AJ is better than Rice in his prime.

AJ's best season: rec. 115 yds. 1,575 avg. 13.7 yds/gm. 98.4 lng.65 tds. 8

Rice's best season: 16 122 1848 115.5 15.1 81 15

AJ's career: 3 1000+ yrd seasons.

Rice's career:
Receiving yards gained in a single season, (1,848)
Receiving yards gained in 1986 (1,570)
Receiving yards gained in 1989 (1,483)
Receiving yards gained in 1990 (1,502)
Receiving yards gained in 1993 (1,503)
Receiving yards gained in 1994 (1,499)
(this is just a few seasons)

in other words even though AJ is the man and moss is a freak there is no way i take either of them over rice in his prime.

[D Frank]

AJ is the best RIGHT NOW and prolly for a long time BUT there is no way (right now) that AJ is better than Rice in his prime.

AJ's best season: rec. 115 yds. 1,575 avg. 13.7 yds/gm. 98.4 lng.65 tds. 8

Rice's best season: 16 122 1848 115.5 15.1 81 15

AJ's career: 3 1000+ yrd seasons.

Rice's career:
Receiving yards gained in a single season, (1,848)
Receiving yards gained in 1986 (1,570)
Receiving yards gained in 1989 (1,483)
Receiving yards gained in 1990 (1,502)
Receiving yards gained in 1993 (1,503)
Receiving yards gained in 1994 (1,499)
(this is just a few seasons)

in other words even though AJ is the man and moss is a freak there is no way i take either of them over rice in his prime.

case closed. thread ended.

[jaffatex23]

One thing that set Rice AND Montana apart was their work ethic. I remember seeing videos of them running the same plays over and over and over again. They would spend hours just running the most simple stuff until everything was perfect. Anyway, that's what it's going to take for AJ to get to that level and the original poster was right, Matt Schaub needs to be with him every step of the way.

[dbruder44]

case closed. thread ended.

Dude, Andre Johnson has 40 more catches in 6 less games than Rice had to start his career (1st six seasons), he does have more yards and TD's but that is more of the Team than the player, catches are the player (IMO). We have no idea what AJ will put up in his career, I think he is just entering his prime and could reasonably expect 120 actch/1800 yard seasons for the next 5+ years so before you just blindly close the debate think about your comparrisson first.

[bigdave]

Too early in AJ's career to put him up there with the all-time greats at WR, but if he can keep it up, there's no doubt he will join and surpass many of them. Some of the names that come to mind when you talk about "Best or Great WR" (I'm only 37yrs old, so I'm not counting guys I didn't watch):

Jerry Rice
Lynn Swann
John Stalworth
Charlie Joiner
Marvin Harrison
Chris Carter
Steve Largent

honorable mention:
Wesley Walker
Mark Duper/Mark Clayton combo
John Jefferson
Herman Moore
Michael Irvin
Jimmy Smith
Terrell Owens
Isaac Bruce

This list is definitely arguable, and I"m sure I left out some

[TLW]

Fitzgerald is representing pretty well these days. He has unlimited potential.

[D Frank]

Dude, Andre Johnson has 40 more catches in 6 less games than Rice had to start his career (1st six seasons), he does have more yards and TD's but that is more of the Team than the player, catches are the player (IMO). We have no idea what AJ will put up in his career, I think he is just entering his prime and could reasonably expect 120 actch/1800 yard seasons for the next 5+ years so before you just blindly close the debate think about your comparrisson first.

what makes a player great? consistancy, avoiding injury, having same qb
etc.

"We have no idea what AJ will put up in his career, I think he is just entering his prime and could reasonably expect 120 actch/1800 yard seasons for the next 5+ years so before you just blindly close the debate think about your comparrisson first.[/QUOTE]

I smoke green you smoke white. I wish he could have ONE 1800 yd season
and you think he can do that year in and out? man I love AJ but I dont
think its possible

[dbruder44]

what makes a player great? consistancy, avoiding injury, having same qb
etc.

"We have no idea what AJ will put up in his career, I think he is just entering his prime and could reasonably expect 120 actch/1800 yard seasons for the next 5+ years so before you just blindly close the debate think about your comparrisson first.

I smoke green you smoke white. I wish he could have ONE 1800 yd season
and you think he can do that year in and out? man I love AJ but I dont
think its possible[/QUOTE]

Just don't assume he can't do it either.

[pure_respect]

what makes a player great? consistancy, avoiding injury, having same qb
etc.
"We have no idea what AJ will put up in his career, I think he is just entering his prime and could reasonably expect 120 actch/1800 yard seasons for the next 5+ years so before you just blindly close the debate think about your comparrisson first.

Chris Carter had a different QB every three seasons. I still maintain that he's the second best receiver, and might have made a run at Jerry Rice had there had been some consistency in his life.

AJ has a long way to go before his name gets tossed around with Rice. He still has to contend with players like Marvin Harrison, Issac Bruce/Torry Holt, and even T.O. (I hate the guy, but he does have the numbers.) AJ might have more talent than these guys, but they established themselves over their long careers and AJ still has a lot to look forward to.

[Matt_in_KW]

No WR playing right now should be mentioned with the HOF WR's like Rice, Swann, Stalworth and others till you see what they do right before they retire.

Will AJ, and others mentioned trail off as they get older? Will they improve on current stats? We won't yet know.

[musicman8251]

Jerry Rice has the stats from a very sucessful scheme. Imaging if we (the Texans) had a 2008 offense every year with Andre Johnson. What then?

:confused: then he would have a bunch of 1500yrd 8 TD seasons. where as rice had a bunch of 1500 15+TD seasons and one 1800yd 23TD season. he still wouldnt have as good of a career as Rice.

look, im all aout supporting our players and i DO think AJ is the best right now and prolly for a long time, BUT im not gonna be biased and blindly say that AJ is best reciever all time cause that is exactly what Rice is so far. the greatest ever. lets support are team but, common, lets think before we speak. (or write)

[TheLBCoach]

I think you have a valid point.

Although, Jerry Rice is A GREAT RECEIVER, I wouldn't say he's hands down the best ever to play the sport.

Jerry Rice is THE BEST WR to ever wear an NFL uniform. No comparison. It's not even a discussion at this point.

[musicman8251]

To me the point is that there is a debate that can be made. Obviously Andre has a long way to go in his career, but to me the greatest ever means you are starting a team and it comes time to pick the first receiver. Rice probably has Andre in route running and finding holes in a zone, but Andre is just so scary with that size and speed. I would take both Andre and Randy Moss before Rice. (BTW I'm not saying Andre doesn't find holes or run good routes, it's just that was how Jerry got by).

:confused:
BTW reaver, how old are you cause if you would take randy moss and AJ over Rice you've obviously have never seen rice play. if you choose player based soley on talent and athleticism you'd have a team full of ryan leafs, courtney browns, and the recent matt jones. just cause they have physical attributes over rice doesnt make them better. Rice consistantly proved he was the best.
:confused:

[TexaStaTexan]

ernest givins is this best reciever ever! end of discussion.

[Matt_in_KW]

Jerry Rice is THE BEST WR to ever wear an NFL uniform. No comparison. It's not even a discussion at this point.

That is the correct answer to this debate. Rie(for now atleast) is hands down the GOAT