Tell me why we wouldn't switch sides w/ Mario and take MJ in the draft

[TexansFan03]

I know 98.45% of you guys don't want him for numerous reasons but this is an option I'm sure Smith and Kubiack are considering.

MJ's production on the field - Some say he doesn't produce on the field, but check out his stats. 17.5 TFL, nine sacks and seven passes broken up as a senior.

Check out his combine - With our new 'aggresive' approach, getting to the qb will be better than ever with to insane DEs. This guy put on 10 pounds, still had good rush speed, and showed decent strength at 28 presses. With a good position coach and strength trainer, he'll be a force to be reckoned with in a SHORT amount of time. Plus he has Mario to tutor him.

Mario could actually switch sides (he takes on double teams all the time anyways). I'd probably rather have him going against a right tackle than a left tackle. Thing is some tight ends are very good blockers...then again, Mario is super human. This would allow MJ to be one on one with the LT. If he and Mario are doubled, that leaves one or two LBs open lanes to the QB.

He's athletic enough to drop into coverage if needed - He gets his hands up and hey, he actually had more passes broken up then a lot of DB's. All this with not even playing every down.

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Now for the bad things:

He doesn't pursue plays opposite of him - Well this is a sometimes thing, I've watched him and he does do it but not always. This guy is a beast, try running down the field every play trying to catch a 4.4 speed RB and come back on the next play, beat a double team and expect to get a sack every time.

I'm not making excuses but even Mario, Julius P., and others have been known to do this in college. You aren't the whole team capable of making every tackle all over the field when everybody else isn't doing their job. You play your side and make sure no one gets past you, then you close down the line. He does this.

Other than that, they say he might not have the strength to bull rush - that may be true but who in this draft does besides Orakpo while being an effective pass rusher? No safety is worth taking in the first. I'd like to trade down but Kruger/others were looking too slow to be pass rushers.

I didn't see how or if he played at the senior game but this guy is who I wanted before seeing some other guys (pre combine) and thinking we could trade down and still get a big pass rusher.

While I still think we will trade down, I am leaning towards:
1 - DE, Michael Johnson
2 - S, Patrick Chung OR William Moore
3 - OLB, Marcus Freeman
4 - RB, Rashad Jennings
5 - OG/C







EDIT: Oh, and did I mention this guy's a beast? Let it be official that I'm hopping on the bandwagon. Check out the link.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3145/2719738461_7095e665f5.jpg?v=0

[TexansFan03]

Maybe I'm delusional, but wasn't Michael Strahan a left defensive end too? I think Mario can do it and still be a menace to offenses.

[chjoak]

Mario is far more effective from RDE. Why do you want to move our most effective pass rusher to a position where he will get less pressure? I thought the point to addressing our pass rush was to find someone that could help put pressue on from the LDE so that Mario could convert more sacks rather than just being very close.

[texasdeuce]

I disagree with him being more effective from the right. He loves the left side, played there in college we put him on the right but I think he does better on the left.

[edo783]

IIRC, more of Mario's sacks have come from LDE than have come from RDE. I do know that his best games have come the LDE.

[steelbtexan]

Johnson played LDE @ Ga. Tech

[outofhnd]

The problem I have with Johnson is I see him getting swallowed by RT. His lack of bulk makes me feel like he would be a project and situational guy, which pick 15 is awful high for a pure pass rush specialist. Now we need another LDE for running downs that can play the run.

[texasdeuce]

Interesting Read

http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m2d21-Kubiak-Texans

[TheLBCoach]

I agree with the posters that say Mario should move to the Left side. He would clearly have just as good, if not better, numbers when facing a RT instead of a LT. Formation strength shouldn't be a problem for Mario, as he's got the bulk needed to take on and shed blocks.

[HuttoKarl]

Williams can play on any side that he wants to play...he's going to get his from either side of the line.

[GoldenHolden]

The reason you would prefer Mario to be on the right side is because you want to keep him away from the TE. If he is on the left side, he will be chipped and cut a heck of a lot more than on the right side which will slow him down and lower his sack numbers. I don't know about which side Mario has the most sacks from but I would be willing to bet, he has a lot more sacks going against a tackle only rather than a tackle and a te.

I am a big fan of Johnson though. He has great measurements and is quick off the ball. The problem is, he is not technically sound. He has a boat load of bad tape. He almost sounds like this years Vernon Gholston, great combine and a terrible rookie season. I think coming off the right side, he could be effective in the pass rush but he will struggle for a few season against the run. I think if we draft him he is a third down specialist unless he puts on another 15 lbs (very possible) and gets a little tougher.

[TheLBCoach]

The reason you would prefer Mario to be on the right side is because you want to keep him away from the TE. If he is on the left side, he will be chipped and cut a heck of a lot more than on the right side which will slow him down and lower his sack numbers. I don't know about which side Mario has the most sacks from but I would be willing to bet, he has a lot more sacks going against a tackle only rather than a tackle and a te.

I am a big fan of Johnson though. He has great measurements and is quick off the ball. The problem is, he is not technically sound. He has a boat load of bad tape. He almost sounds like this years Vernon Gholston, great combine and a terrible rookie season. I think coming off the right side, he could be effective in the pass rush but he will struggle for a few season against the run. I think if we draft him he is a third down specialist unless he puts on another 15 lbs (very possible) and gets a little tougher.

I understand your logic goldenholden, but you have to realize that whatever guy we presumably draft early as a DE to play opposite him is going to face those TE's and cut blocks. Mario would also be (presumably) much better than any rookie we could put in that situation.

As many have said, Mario can play either Strongside or Weakside. Moving him to the other side would only serve to better the play of the defensive line as a whole, in my opinion.

I'm also a big advocate of us drafting 'pass rush' guys back-to-back in this draft..and doing it early. Michael Johnson (2nd) and Marcus Freeman (3rd), for example, is how I hope Rick Smith is approaching this draft. (Not those specific players necessarily, just OLB/DE in either order back-to-back).

[musicman8251]

Why would we even have this discussion? One, Mario is a Right Defensive end despite his size. Two, Michael Johnson has the size of a left D-end. all he has to do is add 10-15 pounds! This is pointless. i do agree that with mario and good coaching this johnson kid could be a steal.

[GoldenHolden]

I understand your logic goldenholden, but you have to realize that whatever guy we presumably draft early as a DE to play opposite him is going to face those TE's and cut blocks. Mario would also be (presumably) much better than any rookie we could put in that situation.

As many have said, Mario can play either Strongside or Weakside. Moving him to the other side would only serve to better the play of the defensive line as a whole, in my opinion.

I'm also a big advocate of us drafting 'pass rush' guys back-to-back in this draft..and doing it early. Michael Johnson (2nd) and Marcus Freeman (3rd), for example, is how I hope Rick Smith is approaching this draft. (Not those specific players necessarily, just OLB/DE in either order back-to-back).

I agree completely about getting "pass rush" guys. There are a few OLB's that can really rush the passer, like Clay Matthews. Combine that with a solid DE selection and we can really upgrade our D line.

I agree Mario would be better than any rookie we draft at playing the left side but I disagree that it will improve our D line play. Mario's numbers will drop off playing the left side, it is proven that more sacks come from the right side, they we would be relying on a rookie to pick up the slack. I would rather put Mario in the best position to succeed and find a LDE that can still put pressure on the QB without hurting the run d.

[GoldenHolden]

Why would we even have this discussion? One, Mario is a Right Defensive end despite his size. Two, Michael Johnson has the size of a left D-end. all he has to do is add 10-15 pounds! This is pointless. i do agree that with mario and good coaching this johnson kid could be a steal.

That is not necessarily true. Michael Johnson is very weak at the point of attack. He hasn't shown much toughness (atleast that I have seen) and he gets pushed around easily. He is more of a finess, speed rusher which would put him on the right side.

Improving the pass rush while hurting the run d at the same time does the texans no good. We need someone who can do it all.

[outofhnd]

Someone like Robert Ayers =D

[GoldenHolden]

Someone like Robert Ayers =D

I like it

[TRUTXN]

People, this is not Tecmo Bowl. Offenses do not only have thier TE's on the right side. It does not matter as much as you think LE or RE. An offense will roll there protection to any side of the field that it is needed. Some of you make it sound as if the TE never lines up on the left side, you are mistaken.

I've seen people on this board say that Mario and Peppers would not be good together because both of them are RE, it's ridiculous. Ask any QB, LT, RT, TE, or FB in the league how they would feel if they had to face both of them. I'm not trying to turn this into a Peppers thread, my point is that it does not matter what the offense does as long as our defense is more talented and executes our scheme to perfection.

[willieg52]

I say that any DE outside of Orakpo will be somewhat of a project. If we could trade down and acquire an extra draft pick I would thnik that given our Draft history we would come out on top if we were to pick up M. Johnson. If you really think about it trading down is the greatest option this year because even if we failled at picking up M. Johnson I would assume R. Ayers would still be there in the late 1st round and even maybe early 2nd.

[GoldenHolden]

People, this is not Tecmo Bowl. Offenses do not only have thier TE's on the right side. It does not matter as much as you think LE or RE. An offense will roll there protection to any side of the field that it is needed. Some of you make it sound as if the TE never lines up on the left side, you are mistaken.

I've seen people on this board say that Mario and Peppers would not be good together because both of them are RE, it's ridiculous. Ask any QB, LT, RT, TE, or FB in the league how they would feel if they had to face both of them. I'm not trying to turn this into a Peppers thread, my point is that it does not matter what the offense does as long as our defense is more talented and executes our scheme to perfection.

You are correct, but most of the time, the TE is on the right side (for right handed qb's atleast). Teams like to put the TE in the qb's line of vision. Alot of times, a te is the quick route for blitzes because they can settle down for a short and quick throw. To add to that, usually the RT is not as good as the LT in pass protection so they don't want him on an island by himself. When I say LDE I really mean strong side DE. Mario will line up on the opposite side of the te pre snap no matter which side the TE is on.

[greedimidi]

You are correct, but most of the time, the TE is on the right side (for right handed qb's atleast). Teams like to put the TE in the qb's line of vision. Alot of times, a te is the quick route for blitzes because they can settle down for a short and quick throw. To add to that, usually the RT is not as good as the LT in pass protection so they don't want him on an island by himself. When I say LDE I really mean strong side DE. Mario will line up on the opposite side of the te pre snap no matter which side the TE is on

and then what happens if the TE motions to mario's side before the snap?

[outofhnd]

People, this is not Tecmo Bowl. Offenses do not only have thier TE's on the right side. It does not matter as much as you think LE or RE. An offense will roll there protection to any side of the field that it is needed. Some of you make it sound as if the TE never lines up on the left side, you are mistaken.

I've seen people on this board say that Mario and Peppers would not be good together because both of them are RE, it's ridiculous. Ask any QB, LT, RT, TE, or FB in the league how they would feel if they had to face both of them. I'm not trying to turn this into a Peppers thread, my point is that it does not matter what the offense does as long as our defense is more talented and executes our scheme to perfection.

If this was tecmo bowl wed be a 3-4 defense and I would demand a trade for bo jackson and christian okoye.

[GoldenHolden]

and then what happens if the TE motions to mario's side before the snap?

Yea that happens, do you really think a team will tip their hand by continuously motioning a te over to mario's side? Look, my main reasoning for not wanting one of this small RDE's is not really the pass rush. The real problem is the weakness we would create in the run d. None of the top RDE prospects are expected to do well in the nfl (atleast early on) against the run, they are all kinda small (260 or so). Unless you want to bring a rookie pass rusher in as a 3rd down specialist, then I don't think it is worth it.

[greedimidi]

Yea that happens, do you really think a team will tip their hand by continuously motioning a te over to mario's side? Look, my main reasoning for not wanting one of this small RDE's is not really the pass rush. The real problem is the weakness we would create in the run d. None of the top RDE prospects are expected to do well in the nfl (atleast early on) against the run, they are all kinda small (260 or so). Unless you want to bring a rookie pass rusher in as a 3rd down specialist, then I don't think it is worth it.


if i had to coordinate an offense against mario williams, best believe i would have a tackle and a tight end double team him on every down.....i would motion the tightend to his side everytime. i am not questioning your reasoning by any means. the point i am trying to make is that it really doesnt matter what side mario lines up on...he would still be a force. regardless of what side mario lines up on, be it the strong side or the weak side, the left or the right, an offense would still have to account for him at all times.

[Texan Naija]

Honestly, none of the available DEs seem talented enough that I would move Mario out of his apparent preferred position and gamble on them doing better then he is doing right there.

[Goatcheese]

Someone like Robert Ayers =D

Ayers has 9 sacks in 48 career games over 4 seasons vs MJ's 9 sacks in 13 games his senior season.

He's just not a guy I'm interested in.

[Cheroqui]

Don't we also want him there to be on the blindside of the QB for more sacks, and forced fumbles? You know, like what he did to Ben during the Steelers game >;-D

[Texian]

MJ's production on the field - Some say he doesn't produce on the field, but check out his stats. 17.5 TFL, nine sacks and seven passes broken up as a senior.

The stats you quote are just average and ordinary, TFL he ranks 22nd and Sacks he ranks 30th. Nothing spectacular. There is over 15 DEs who have better stats than MJ. Watch MJ in the Georgia and LSU game, it's like the game, "Where's Waldo". Pity the poor team that drafts MJ, it will be a wasted pick. The scarecrow needs to go see the Wizard.