Matt Schaub more valuable to Falcons than Cassel and Vabrel to Pats?

[Macaronitoni]

Three years ago, we picked up a QB that was coveted but for the most part unproven and only started 2 games before and we gave up two second round picks. It looks as if it was worth it but what I don't understand...

KC just picked up Matt Cassel, who is probably equally as talented (maybe more physically gifted) and he is for the most part a proven commodity, AND (Mike?) Vrabel, a LB that would start on any team and all they gave up for both players was ONE low second round pick.

Is there a factor here I am not thinking about? I'm starting to feel like we got ripped off, even if Matt Schaub has proven to be our guy (When he's healthy anyway).

[Macaronitoni]

oops someone fix the title, I misspelled Vrabel

[houstonsportsfan09]

Three years ago, we picked up a QB that was coveted but for the most part unproven and only started 2 games before and we gave up two second round picks. It looks as if it was worth it but what I don't understand...

KC just picked up Matt Cassel, who is probably equally as talented (maybe more physically gifted) and he is for the most part a proven commodity, AND (Mike?) Vrabel, a LB that would start on any team and all they gave up for both players was ONE low second round pick.

Is there a factor here I am not thinking about? I'm starting to feel like we got ripped off, even if Matt Schaub has proven to be our guy (When he's healthy anyway).

Somone brought this up the other day on here, and it was a good point. Makes you really think, did we "overpay" for him when we aquired him? Then again, who knows, maybe Cassel is a one year wonder.

[zanth91]

Somone brought this up the other day on here, and it was a good point. Makes you really think, did we "overpay" for him when we aquired him? Then again, who knows, maybe Cassel is a one year wonder.

That was me :p

[houstonsportsfan09]

That was me :p

Oh haha, would of gave you credit if I remembered. Didn't feel like going to search either, but yeah now I remember, it was you.

[CoogBull]

We overpaid. Simple as that.

[go2skoos]

No, I think we gave up a fair amount for Schaub. New England got ripped off miserably I don't know if it had to do with KC GM Scott Pioli coming from there or what but for a 2nd rounder you get a star QB and LB?

[houstonsportsfan09]

No, I think we gave up a fair amount for Schaub. New England got ripped off miserably I don't know if it had to do with KC GM Scott Pioli coming from there or what but for a 2nd rounder you get a star QB and LB?

Part of it I'm sure was connections. And NE didnt really get ripped off. O'Connell is gonna replace Cassel, probably not as good as him if he's called upon but I heard theyre high on him. And Vrabel hes getting up their in age, but hes still good. If you didnt realize what NE is doing, theyre stock piling draft picks, and just rebuilding and getting younger at the same time while still being good.

[Yosarian]

Carr was an infection. I'd of paid double to get him out of here.

Cassell is not as good as some think. Of course that is just one couch potatos opinion. I was not really that impressed with his over all game play in the few games i got to see of him. He is lucky at times which helps. But i'll be shocked if he becomes a great quarterback next year. He looked a little timid out there to me. I'm not sold that he has the guts it takes to be an nfl qb. You have to be fearless. I didn't see that quality in him.
But i still hink Romo sucks and he is rated in the top 5 QB's ..lol

I just don't think Cassell is that good. I think a lot of his success was the team around him and some great innovative coaching and play calling.

I'd take schaub to cassell. So i say yes he is worth more. Is he worth what we paid for him? When we win the superbowl we will all be saying oh yes we got a bargain!Schaub=fearless!

[TheGoaT]

Cassel gets paid more than Matt. Its not so much of Cassel being that cheap of a deal as it was NE HAD to unload him as their cap space was full with him and they couldnt make any moves in FA until they unloaded him. You cant have two high dollar QBs on your roster at the same time. Keep in mind also its very likely Cassel is a product of the NE system much like every other player that comes out of there. Their production suddenly drops when they arent in NE anymore and I think teams know this.

[Dr. Z]

Yeah we didnt pay too much. The chiefs got one heck of a steal! i still cant believe it. The Pats must really need cap space.

[Mailman]

Don't be fooled by Belichick's excuse-makers in the media and on the internet message boards. He misplayed this one but everyone's excusing it because he's the Genius in the Hoodie. He should and could have received either a first round pick or multiple seconds at least. AJ Feeley was traded for almost the exact same pick. Cassel is indisputably better than Feeley. In addition, Eli was traded for Rivers, a first, a third, and a fifth. At that time both Rivers and Eli were highly regarded prospects, not proven NFL performers. And of course there's the Schaub deal. Unlike Cassel, Schaub had only started two games in his entire NFL career, yet he still commanded two second round picks and a swap of firsts.

No, we didn't overpay for Schaub. From what we now know about the teams involved in the Cutler/Cassel mess yesterday, there was a market for Matt Cassel and the Pats failed to get maximum value out of their coveted backup to Tom Brady.

[Mailman]

Cassel gets paid more than Matt. Its not so much of Cassel being that cheap of a deal as it was NE HAD to unload him as their cap space was full with him and they couldnt make any moves in FA until they unloaded him.

Atlanta had to move Matt, too, because he was gonna walk the next year if they didn't. (Pre-dog fighting, of course).

The cap space stuff is extraneous to the discussion of market value. There was obvious demand for him and the Pats failed to take maximum advantage of it.

[CoogBull]

Why can people not accept that we overpaid? Oh right I forgot, we can not admit mistakes on this board.

[Sportswriter79]

It's too early to tell whether or not the Texans "overpaid" for Matt. He's only been here two years.

[lilbush]

NE doesn't want a 1st round 3rd pick (well...I am sure they would take Curry any day). What I mean is they do not want to pay top ten $$$. I think they have confidence in their scouts and are going to be able to snag their rush OLB (English, Maybin, or Sintim) and their top CB (DJ, Alphonso, Butler, or S Smith) with their first two pics. I say we buy a hoody for Kubes!!!

I could see them going:
1st: DJ Moore CB
2nd: Laurinaitis ILB
2nd: Connor Barwin OLB
2nd: Mike Mickens CB
3rd: Nic Harris SS/OLB

Are you kidding me!!! This would be a sick first three rounds!!!! So much for the Pats being old.

[taylor90]

Why can people not accept that we overpaid? Oh right I forgot, we can not admit mistakes on this board.

ahman green, david carr, anthony weaver, and jacoby jones were mistakes..dont be such a pessimist

[pure_respect]

I wonder what the conversation would have been had this happened..

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_11810112

Back on topic - My gut reaction when we got Schaub was that we gave up way too much for him. That will never change. What might change is how much value he'll give us for those extra picks.

I bet people in New Jersey/New York hated the Rivers-Manning trade until they won the Super Bowl.

[Mailman]

Why can people not accept that we overpaid? Oh right I forgot, we can not admit mistakes on this board.

Um, because we didn't!

In case you've forgotten, QB is still by far the most important position on the field. In hindsight, I think one can easily argue the opposite point. Two second round picks(#39 and #48) for Matt Schaub is a good deal. In draft value we sent a mid-1st to Atlanta for a quarterback with three years of NFL experience even though he'd only started two games. We have our quarterback and are better off for it.

Truth: KC got over on the other teams in need of a quarterback. They underpaid in a big way.

[Mailman]

NE doesn't want a 1st round 3rd pick (well...I am sure they would take Curry any day). What I mean is they do not want to pay top ten $$$. I think they have confidence in their scouts and are going to be able to snag their rush OLB (English, Maybin, or Sintim) and their top CB (DJ, Alphonso, Butler, or S Smith) with their first two pics. I say we buy a hoody for Kubes!!!

I could see them going:
1st: DJ Moore CB
2nd: Laurinaitis ILB
2nd: Connor Barwin OLB
2nd: Mike Mickens CB
3rd: Nic Harris SS/OLB

Are you kidding me!!! This would be a sick first three rounds!!!! So much for the Pats being old.

This "NE hates top-ten draft picks" stuff is sillytalk. They took Mayo with the tenth pick in last year's draft.

[thunderkyss]

KC just picked up Matt Cassel, who is probably equally as talented (maybe more physically gifted) and he is for the most part a proven commodity, AND (Mike?) Vrabel, a LB that would start on any team and all they gave up for both players was ONE low second round pick.



The 3rd pick of the 2nd round isn't a "low second round pick."

I'd say it's a high 2nd actually.

[powerhouse713]

It was all about that pioli and the patriot connection. The chiefs sent the 34th pick for Cassell and Detroit was equally as interested and had the 33rd pick. How come the patriots didn't trade him for the higher pick hmmm. I went to patriot board, and a lot of the fans were displeased that they didn't get more Cassell. I think it came down to Tom Brady was on schedule and Cassell was eating to much cap at 14M+ GUARANTEED, they had no room to get sign anybody so they basically dumped him. There is more to the story than we will probably ever know. In hindsight you can say we overpaid but at the time, it was a fair deal.


This is a interesting read:

Circumstances surrounding the Matt Cassel trade keep getting curiouser and curiouser.

The more we learn, the more inexplicable it gets.

The New England Patriots sent Cassel and linebacker Mike Vrabel to the Kansas City Chiefs for the 34th overall selection in this year's draft, compensation that seemed a little weak on the surface.

ESPN's Chris Mortensen has since reported there was a much better offer on the table, that the Patriots passed on the 12th overall pick in a three-way trade that would've sent Denver Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

The Patriots did business with Chiefs general manager Scott Pioli, who for the previous nine years worked closely with Bill Belichick in the Patriots' front office. It must be noted new Broncos head coach Josh McDaniels was Belichick's offensive coordinator in New England.

Mort and I have exchanged a few e-mails on the subject. Here is how he broke down the proposed three-way deal:

This one defies logic, but a source I really trust tells me it's true: The Broncos were willing to offer their own first-round pick (12th overall) to the Patriots for Cassel. Obviously, it was conditional upon Cutler being traded and Tampa Bay was the most likely destination, the Bucs willing to part with their first- and third-round picks.

But Belichick never embraced a trade with the Broncos, even though it was a head-scratcher on the value part (second-rounder versus a first-rounder). It suggests two or three speculative thoughts:

1. Belichick has always valued second-round picks (he now has three) and didn't want to be stuck at No. 12 financially for whatever reason;
2. Belichick had an agreement with Pioli all along and wouldn't break his word;
3. Belichick isn't about to help another former assistant.

The Broncos sensed resistance all along, which is why they held the Bucs, Lions, Vikings, etc., at arm's length and allows McDaniels his plausible deniability on trading Cutler (and logic supports his denial).

However, despite intense efforts to keep this run at Cassel under wraps, enough damage has been done that Cutler may now be on the block.

The Broncos/Cutler aspect of the trade was reported by the Boston Globe. A Patriots' leak? Why? To mess with McDaniels?

Mort is correct. The information is astounding.

[TheGoaT]

Atlanta had to move Matt, too, because he was gonna walk the next year if they didn't. (Pre-dog fighting, of course).

The cap space stuff is extraneous to the discussion of market value. There was obvious demand for him and the Pats failed to take maximum advantage of it.

The cap space is an issue, because it made the Pats pressed for time to get rid of him. The best FAs will go fast, and they didnt have much money to work with as long as Cassel was on the roster. Atlanta needed to unload Matt, but not nearly in the time crunch that NE had.

[Mailman]

The cap space is an issue, because it made the Pats pressed for time to get rid of him. The best FAs will go fast, and they didnt have much money to work with as long as Cassel was on the roster. Atlanta needed to unload Matt, but not nearly in the time crunch that NE had.

I don't buy that at all. They had time to work the league and if they'd waited a matter of hours they probably would've had a first round pick and a third round pick and Jay Cutler would be a Buc. They were hasty and it cost them. Credit to KC for being aggressive about it, of course, but it helps that Pioli was the one on the phone with Belichick.

[dbruder44]

We have Matt Schaub and Antonio Smith for the same price as Cassel, that is where he was worth two second round picks. Cassel was behind and awesome line and had a great defense, in KC we will see what lind of player they got for a 2nd rounder (that has a 16 million dollar cap number). Also everyone (coogbull too) we had a sign and trade deal, Cassel can take his 16 million and walk at the end of a year at this point too. They didn't get a locked up asset.

[outofhnd]

For those who say we overpaid.

Some observations -

1. We locked up Schaubs Contract before the trade. However Cassell still remains on his 1 year deal They have yet to sign him to a longterm deal. That can work both ways for KC if he shines hell want outrageous money if he flops KC will still have to draft a QB next year.

2. Do you really think Belichek would do this if there was a better offer on the table? The other rumors were just that, rumors. If they were founded and do able who would be dumb enough to pass that up for a mere 2nd rounder

3. Before this season Cassell didn't even start in college. In fact Cassell was on the verge of being cut last offseason. Plus is it safe to say that any QB can look good when you have Moss, and Wes Welker to throw to? Lets see how he does down in KC with no semblance of an offensive line and fewer reliable targets.

4. To sit there and claim we overpaid is just foolish if you believe you can build a winning franchise around someone you lock him up which is what the Texans did. Lets see where this franchise is next year and I will spot cassell 3 in KC and see where we end up. so far Cassell has to go 8-8 the next 2 years.

[Towlie]

This trade is good for both teams... first, chiefs get a leader on defense (Declining) and a POTENTIAL franchise QB... the pats get rid of a 14 mill backup QB, and a 2nd round pick... Remember who Cassel was throwing the ball to now...

[Se7en]

Schaub=fearless!

This is both good and bad. Remember in 2007 when he would stare down rushers just to release the ball right as he got smashed and did over and over throwing accurate balls while taking all the hits after the throw.

After watching Carr run scared, the reason I respect Schaub now is because he does not flinch and run from the hits. Sadly this same thing has also led to him taking some pretty big hits and also a few cheapshoots.

We paid what we had to in order to get the guy we wanted. I do not feel we over paid for Schaub because he is a leader of this team and we are no longer bottom feeders. He has improved as a player and we should be looking pretty good this season if he stays healthy.

[TheRedfishCo]

The rumor is that the Pats will use the 2 second round picks to get Peppers.

[outofhnd]

He has to sign his tender before he can be traded, last I checked pep has not done that.

[TexansRage123]

hmm good topic here....i believe schaub is worth what he was traded for....he just needs to stop being injured and play the full 16 games...for what the pats did....it was really smart....i think it has alot to with pioli being formerly with the pats....but thats prob the best offer they was gonna get....plus cassel isnt gonna do as good as he did with chiefs...they have a weaker o-line and less aware recievers....vrabel is old and losing his touch...he may be a good leader...but thats all...he just a hype man...so one washed up LB + 1 over rated QB for a 2nd round pick.....plus freeing up like 18 million dollars..smart move on the pats....and falcons prob ripped off texans especially if schuab was unproven when the deal took place...

[dbruder44]

hmm good topic here....i believe schaub is worth what he was traded for....he just needs to stop being injured and play the full 16 games...for what the pats did....it was really smart....i think it has alot to with pioli being formerly with the pats....but thats prob the best offer they was gonna get....plus cassel isnt gonna do as good as he did with chiefs...they have a weaker o-line and less aware recievers....vrabel is old and losing his touch...he may be a good leader...but thats all...he just a hype man...so one washed up LB + 1 over rated QB for a 2nd round pick.....plus freeing up like 18 million dollars..smart move on the pats....and falcons prob ripped off texans especially if schuab was unproven when the deal took place...

The falcons turned down offers the previous year containing 1st round picks and didn't get it done our Mgmt knew it ws going to take 2 picks high ones at least they were not the same draft.

[johndoe]

the whole Cassel trade seems kinda fishy to me. the theory that they were trying to clear cap space dosn't make too much sense considering there aren't many big name FA left out there. could they be trying to land Julius Peppers in a trade??? probably not...

[TexansRage123]

the patriots dont always go for big names...there is a bunch of small names with good talent...like jabari greer...he a good corner...maybe get a back up QB in grossman or leftwich...or derrick brooks at Linebacker...or Joey galloway at WR...

[needmorelinemen]

Cassell is smoke and mirrors with a fantastic one year against a weak schedule. By tagging him they did not lose him outright, but there is no way they could enter into the season with that kind of payroll at the QB position.

New England managed to trade an old LB and a guy they were on the verge of losing to free agency for a pick just outside of the 1st round. That Broncos trade was just ridiculous and was never going to happen.

The Schaub trade was for two 2nd rounders in consecutive years, right? I've heard the rule of thumb for a draft pick in the following year is worth one round lower than if it were the current year (for example a 2nd rounder right now in 2010 is worth a third rounder in 2009 tradewise).

I'm just thinking of all the second round QB's that have been picked lately like Kellen Clemens and Edwards up in Buffalo. Schaub is totally worth it. Aside form the dings, if you get him for a full 16 games I can't say you overpaid for him. I wish we had him for the Bears.

[powerhouse713]

if there one thing I would change about that trade, it would be the fact we swapped spots in the first round. Other than that, I thought it was a fair trade and I still do. New England basically dumped Cassell to KC with other better offers on the table.

[powerhouse713]

if there one thing I would change about that trade, it would be the fact we swapped spots in the first round. Other than that, I thought it was a fair trade and I still do. New England basically gave Cassell to KC with other better offers on the table.