3rd and 7, Will the Defense Prevail?

[lamont]

We are all familiar with our defense giving up the big 3rd down plays, do we have the peaces in place now to get off the field at a high percentage rate with this team? Or are we 1 player away from making that a serious goal. I would think between Mario, Demeco, Amoye we should at least go 50% on 3rd downs.


LETS GO TEXANS

[Sprtsfanatic]

I believe its Amobi, or maybe you meant Okoye...either way I think you'll see a huge difference in our defense once they newbies get the system down and the vets teach them a thing or two about what they know.

[lamont]

Here we go again with this VET garbage, what have vets done for this team outside of Glenn. I am not snapping at you but I am fed up with the veteran leadership garbage. Vet leadership dont apply to this team, all we need is solid players and good coaching.

[Sprtsfanatic]

I see your point, but you cant seriously believe that the rookies havent in the past nor will they in the future get any teachings from vets...you might have seen the video of maddox talking about how spencer picked his brain after every play and practice...there is a lot to be learned from the veteran lineman and the source is there for the picking...but to think or say that the rookies dont need their help is ABSURD

[Zagen30]

I see your point, but you cant seriously believe that the rookies havent in the past nor will they in the future get any teachings from vets...you might have seen the video of maddox talking about how spencer picked his brain after every play and practice...there is a lot to be learned from the veteran lineman and the source is there for the picking...but to think or say that the rookies dont need their help is ABSURD
I think you mean Salaam, but I think everyone gets the point.
You definitely need veterans on a team, or else there are no players to show the young players how to play better in the NFL, or to relate their experiences, or be role models, etc. Would you really want to have a linebacking corp where no one has much experience and has to learn everything the hard way? I'd want at least a few veterans to show the young guys the ropes and help them get acclimated to the NFL.
And I think that Sharper was another big loss. He was another key veteran that we let go that ended up hurting our team big time. If he and Glenn hadn't been let go, I seriously doubt that we'd have gone 2-14.

[lamont]

So explain Andre Johnson? I mean what leadership he had to learn from that catapulted him into an elite receiver? Now look at David Carr under Tony Banks, Tony Banks was ona freaking superbowl team. I think veteran leadership as well as home field advantage is so overhyped. Bottom line I put my money on talent and coaching before veteran leadership. Did Warren Moon help Cody Carlson, Roger Clemmons help Rodriquez. I know you guys are right on to a certain extinct but in the case of the Texans I much rather to see "kick *** " players playing some organized confusion type of football bring back some Lambert style of ball that good ole hit at will. The only thing you can obtain from a veteran worth taking in is, which strip joints to go to while on the road



LETS GO TEXANS

[HydrOshocK]

C'mon Lamont....why must you start a thread for the sole purpose of shooting down everyone's responses?? I'm starting to think that's what you enjoy most.
You can't possibly say that veteran leadership has no impact on rookie's performance. That statement is ridiculous. Sure there are some instances, such as AJ's, where a rookie player does not have a veteran on the team in his position that can mentor him. But in order for that player to succeed he has to posses the individual maturity and work ethic, not to mention intelligence, to figure it out and teach himself how to succeed quickly. Otherwise the learning curve is far greater and takes far longer to over come. And please don't associate Tony Banks as a viable veteran for David Carr to have learned from. There's a reason why Banks never succeeded in the NFL.
As for our defense I think we'll be greatly improved in 3rd and long situations. Our D-line should generate much more pressure on the edges and up the middle on obvious pass situations now with a healthy and more experienced Mario, and young playmakers at the DT spot like Okoye that can push the pocket.. That means less time for the QB to sit in the pocket and pick apart our secondary. It also means less time our DBs have to spend blanketing receivers. I think we'll see more sacks and poorly thrown balls leading to interceptions or incompletions.
Defense builds championships.

[Zagen30]

So explain Andre Johnson? I mean what leadership he had to learn from that catapulted him into an elite receiver? Now look at David Carr under Tony Banks, Tony Banks was ona freaking superbowl team. I think veteran leadership as well as home field advantage is so overhyped. Bottom line I put my money on talent and coaching before veteran leadership. Did Warren Moon help Cody Carlson, Roger Clemmons help Rodriquez. I know you guys are right on to a certain extinct but in the case of the Texans I much rather to see "kick *** " players playing some organized confusion type of football bring back some Lambert style of ball that good ole hit at will. The only thing you can obtain from a veteran worth taking in is, which strip joints to go to while on the road



LETS GO TEXANS

Tony Banks. You're actually bringing up Tony Banks. Sure, it goes counter to my argument. But do you realize that Banks was so bad that he started out the season of the Ravens' SB win as the starter, and then played so badly that he was replaced by Trent Freakin' Dilfer? I'm talking about quality, or at least decent, veterans. Sage is twice the QB that Banks ever was. Sometimes veterans just don't help the young guys that much, such as Favre (I heard he didn't want to mentor Rodgers), or Banks (who is just plain bad), but they are usually a plus.
And as the poster above me said, AJ is a special talent who was able to succeed without anyone to mentor him. But you then look at how he exploded out of the gate last year, after the Texans got an experienced veteran in Moulds on the team. I remember AJ saying that he glued himself to Moulds and just soaked up the knowledge about playing WR that Eric had. Even if Moulds had lost a couple steps, his knowledge made AJ a better receiver.
And obviously it takes talent for players to get better, you could put me on the Patriots and I don't think I'd play very well even with all that veteran talent (although Belichick could probably make me into a not-half-bad DB, considering his track record). Carr's talent was ruined by inept coaching, and no amount of veteran experience in his backup was going to fix that.
I'm not saying coaching isn't important, but trying to build a team out of rookies and young players only works in Madden.

[lamont]

HYDRO I am not trying to shoot down other's post, I think all of you guys are on spot on the money but I get fed up when I hear VETERAN presence. My point about Tony Banks is what I intended, basically Tony Banks was garbage and did not provide any leadership to Carr. Intangibles such as leadership shouldnt be factored into the Texans overall game plan, we tried it and it did not work hell let the truth be told all of the somewhat successful players for the Texans have happen to be Rookies with no leadership schooling them. I may be wrong but who talk Demeco, AJ, Duntae, and Dominique Williams.

Hear me out I am not knocking it totally but currently speaking I just don't see much it would bring to the table. One could make the argument Taylor may have picked up some vision techniques from ROn Dayne but that's highly stretching. Now if the Texans was getting veteran leadership drom Asante Samuel, Michael Strahan, Merriman then I would be right on that band wagon, but the veterans we have right now or most likely fighting to make the special teams,
I do understand yall point but not when it comes to the texans.

[lamont]

So explain Andre Johnson? I mean what leadership he had to learn from that catapulted him into an elite receiver? Now look at David Carr under Tony Banks, Tony Banks was ona freaking superbowl team. I think veteran leadership as well as home field advantage is so overhyped. Bottom line I put my money on talent and coaching before veteran leadership. Did Warren Moon help Cody Carlson, Roger Clemmons help Rodriquez. I know you guys are right on to a certain extinct but in the case of the Texans I much rather to see "kick *** " players playing some organized confusion type of football bring back some Lambert style of ball that good ole hit at will. The only thing you can obtain from a veteran worth taking in is, which strip joints to go to while on the road



LETS GO TEXANS

Tony Banks. You're actually bringing up Tony Banks. Sure, it goes counter to my argument. But do you realize that Banks was so bad that he started out the season of the Ravens' SB win as the starter, and then played so badly that he was replaced by Trent Freakin' Dilfer? I'm talking about quality, or at least decent, veterans. Sage is twice the QB that Banks ever was. Sometimes veterans just don't help the young guys that much, such as Favre (I heard he didn't want to mentor Rodgers), or Banks (who is just plain bad), but they are usually a plus.
And as the poster above me said, AJ is a special talent who was able to succeed without anyone to mentor him. But you then look at how he exploded out of the gate last year, after the Texans got an experienced veteran in Moulds on the team. I remember AJ saying that he glued himself to Moulds and just soaked up the knowledge about playing WR that Eric had. Even if Moulds had lost a couple steps, his knowledge made AJ a better receiver.
And obviously it takes talent for players to get better, you could put me on the Patriots and I don't think I'd play very well even with all that veteran talent (although Belichick could probably make me into a not-half-bad DB, considering his track record). Carr's talent was ruined by inept coaching, and no amount of veteran experience in his backup was going to fix that.
I'm not saying coaching isn't important, but trying to build a team out of rookies and young players only works in Madden.

Actually Zagen, championship-caliber football teams are built with rookies and young players. You can't build a champion through Free Agency.

ALLDay you correct about AJ but explain his first Pro Bowl, what vet was he learning from then.

[Zagen30]

So explain Andre Johnson? I mean what leadership he had to learn from that catapulted him into an elite receiver? Now look at David Carr under Tony Banks, Tony Banks was ona freaking superbowl team. I think veteran leadership as well as home field advantage is so overhyped. Bottom line I put my money on talent and coaching before veteran leadership. Did Warren Moon help Cody Carlson, Roger Clemmons help Rodriquez. I know you guys are right on to a certain extinct but in the case of the Texans I much rather to see "kick *** " players playing some organized confusion type of football bring back some Lambert style of ball that good ole hit at will. The only thing you can obtain from a veteran worth taking in is, which strip joints to go to while on the road



LETS GO TEXANS

Tony Banks. You're actually bringing up Tony Banks. Sure, it goes counter to my argument. But do you realize that Banks was so bad that he started out the season of the Ravens' SB win as the starter, and then played so badly that he was replaced by Trent Freakin' Dilfer? I'm talking about quality, or at least decent, veterans. Sage is twice the QB that Banks ever was. Sometimes veterans just don't help the young guys that much, such as Favre (I heard he didn't want to mentor Rodgers), or Banks (who is just plain bad), but they are usually a plus.
And as the poster above me said, AJ is a special talent who was able to succeed without anyone to mentor him. But you then look at how he exploded out of the gate last year, after the Texans got an experienced veteran in Moulds on the team. I remember AJ saying that he glued himself to Moulds and just soaked up the knowledge about playing WR that Eric had. Even if Moulds had lost a couple steps, his knowledge made AJ a better receiver.
And obviously it takes talent for players to get better, you could put me on the Patriots and I don't think I'd play very well even with all that veteran talent (although Belichick could probably make me into a not-half-bad DB, considering his track record). Carr's talent was ruined by inept coaching, and no amount of veteran experience in his backup was going to fix that.
I'm not saying coaching isn't important, but trying to build a team out of rookies and young players only works in Madden.

Actually Zagen, championship-caliber football teams are built with rookies and young players. You can't build a champion through Free Agency.

Let me clarify, what I meant didn't come across properly:
Trying to field a team made up of rookies and young players only works in Madden. Any team with a legitimate chance of competing for a Super Bowl (or even the playoffs) needs to have experienced veterans on the roster, and probably starting.
And lamont, sometimes there are players so good that they can come in and be stars right away. Others need mentoring and time to get acclimated to the NFL, and that's where having experienced veterans comes into play. Banks may have been a veteran, but he certainly wasn't very experienced (or that good). Not Carr's fault that Casserly never bothered to give him a decent QB to learn from.

[Whiskeyrbl]

To answer the post I think they will prevail more often than not because of the young talent we have gotten the past 2 years if everyone can stay healthy. And to answer about AJ, he is just one of those plaayers with drive and he also was working out with Jerry Rice for a while, might still be. I'm sure he got some good pointers there.