2nd pick is..... Barwin

[GroovyTexan]

I need to excuse myself with a girly magazine!:D

[dajjal]

woot!!

[pure_respect]

Man I'm so happy we got him (since Chung was off the board). I've been all over this guy since the Senior Bowl.

Is it wrong to do a victory lap?.. ah the heck with it.. brb.

[anmarc542]

LOVE IT!

Especially if he is flexible to work at DE and maye even OLB on the weak side

[TexanFan23]

I don't know much about him but was really hoping for Michael Johnson..

[zanth91]

Great pick! Now we can fill RB and DB with our 3rd and 2 4th round picks.

[Sprtsfanatic]

I cant say I saw that one coming....wow...not really what I was looking for from our draft on day one.....

Im not feeling this draft one bit...I hope they prove me wrong...

[cdastros]

I guess he is a 3rd down DE.

[sCougars]

I LOVE IT! Great DAY 1 DRAFT!!!!!

[GroovyTexan]

http://boards.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=11876

for those that don't know much about Barwin. here is a Texan thread about him.

[Extinction]

think both of those picks are poor choices. we have 5 solid lb's and just gave a fa DE a bunch of money. there are bigger holes on def.

[Se7en]

I guess he is a 3rd down DE.

That is what I am seeing as well. He appears to be a project/rush specialist for passing downs. Whereas Smith can move in to play DT or DE to play the run.

I am happy with the draft so far but, as always, we will have to wait until preseason to see what we have.

[DTexan]

I think we might regret not picking up W.Moore out of Mizzou.

[johndoe]

I don't know much about him but was really hoping for Michael Johnson..

High motor, Motivated guy, unlike Johnson. I feel much, much better about our pass-rush

[Se7en]

think both of those picks are poor choices. we have 5 solid lb's and just gave a fa DE a bunch of money. there are bigger holes on def.

We have a new DC who might not value those plays at the same level that Dick Smith did. We have solid LBs but Cushing should be an immediate starter that will improve our core.

I have no idea why you would feel any negativity towards adding a DE when we have been suffering opposite Mario for so long. Our are you just a person that values the flash of offensive weapons and only wants us to add RBs, QBs, and WRs?

[buffsoldier]

Hoped that we would pick up William Moore or Max Unger but i trust the front office, speed off the edge is never bad.

[**Texan**]

I don't know anything about this cat, but what would've been wrong with giving one our 4th round picks away to jump up 4 spots and grab E. Brown. Does that not make any sense?

[GroovyTexan]

I don't know anything about this cat, but what would've been wrong with giving one our 4th round picks away to jump up 4 spots and grab E. Brown. Does that not make any sense?

http://boards.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=11876

read up on our newest Texan!

[sl33py]

one thing i know is that u can't have too many DE's. i remember one year giants had Strahan, Osi Umenyiora, Tuck, and Kiwanuka. Mario/Antonio Smith/Barwin will be a good 3 man rotation at the DE spots.

Cushing as the run stopper, Ryans is a balance lb, and june will be the coverage linebacker. Diles, Adibi, and Buster Davis add great depth as well as good special teams play.

question is lets hope Andre Brown, Shonn Greene, or Sean Smith is there in the 3rd round.

[Se7en]

I don't know anything about this cat, but what would've been wrong with giving one our 4th round picks away to jump up 4 spots and grab E. Brown. Does that not make any sense?

Ask the Texans' staff, they are the only ones that know what their value was for those 2 players. Perhaps they did not want E. Brown because they wanted to focus on a specialist that they could play alongside Smith.

In my opinion, and I am sure many will agree with this, is that we cannot give away picks because we need them all. We do not have anywhere near as many holes as we did in years past, but we still need as many players as possible to push for starting positions and to challenge our current roster.

Giving away picks is something you see teams like the patriots doing because they have a team that is free of holes. If anything most people expected the texans to trade their first pick BACK in order to gain MORE picks.

[GroovyTexan]

question is lets hope Andre Brown, Shonn Greene, or Sean Smith is there in the 3rd round.

i can see a trade up to early third for A Brown or Shonn Greene. we can get to a top 6 pick in the third if we use one of our 4ths. Cross your fingers! ;)

[BMT TEXAN]

Personally, this draft is turning out pretty-darn good IMO. Barwin is a perfect pick. His motor is non-stop & he's wreck-less. Cushing was pretty much expected, but these 2 guys can def. come in & contribute immediately!!!

[Texan Naija]

I was hoping we'd draft a safety in round two. A new pass rusher is great but our best safeties are all older guys and I'd LOVE to see some quality depth in that position.

[TexansMVP]

I still need to read up on him, but from what I've seen in the old threads, he's definitely an interesting pick that could up being a real steal at this point in the game. Let's hope our coaches can bring out the best in him.

[johndoe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u79CJdrxZbo

enjoy!!!

[GroovyTexan]

I was hoping we'd draft a safety in round two. A new pass rusher is great but our best safeties are all older guys and I'd LOVE to see some quality depth in that position.

here is my guess who they are thinking about for a SS:

http://boards.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=11959

[DTexan]

So far high motor play makers. I like it!

Yea...that's what I picked up on. The picks are not my favorite. But, I like gamers and I like high-motored gamers. So, Im on board until proven that the picks are a joke.

In Smith and Kubiak we still trust.

[pure_respect]

here is my guess who they are thinking about for a SS:

http://boards.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=11959

He was selected by the Raiders. Sorry. I'm kind of curious about (SS) Kevin Ellison from USC in the later rounds.

[TexanFan23]

Personally, this draft is turning out pretty-darn good IMO. Barwin is a perfect pick. His motor is non-stop & he's wreck-less. Cushing was pretty much expected, but these 2 guys can def. come in & contribute immediately!!!

I'm REALLY starting to like this draft.

I was a bit confused about Barwin but looking at his vids and looking at info about him, He may just turn into a helluva lineman.

[GroovyTexan]

He was selected by the Raiders. Sorry. I'm kind of curious about (SS) Kevin Ellison from USC in the later rounds.

too busy posting about Barwin to notice - so thanks. Raiders are a strange breed although I like this pick for them even if it was a round or two too early.

Maybe Hamlin will be there in the 4th for us.

[wildroot]

We have a new DC who might not value those plays at the same level that Dick Smith did. We have solid LBs but Cushing should be an immediate starter that will improve our core.

I have no idea why you would feel any negativity towards adding a DE when we have been suffering opposite Mario for so long. Our are you just a person that values the flash of offensive weapons and only wants us to add RBs, QBs, and WRs?

I think he's talking about the secondary. He's right though, we've been loading up on the D-Line through drafts and the Smith signing but as long as the recievers aren't well covered the QB will always be able to dump off to someone before he gets sacked. For two years we've been talking about a game=changer for our secondary...we're not going to find one now at this point of the draft. We have one quality player back there, the rest are low draft picks and it shows.
Don't get me wrong, I like the players we took, just think we had greater needs.

[pure_respect]

I'm REALLY starting to like this draft.

I was a bit confused about Barwin but looking at his vids and looking at info about him, He may just turn into a helluva lineman.

I'm hoping we do a lot more with this guy than just a 3rd down lineman. As a converted TE he probably has some pretty good ball skills, so rotating him at WILL isn't completely out of the question (especially when theatening a blitz.)

We also have the potential of using his athleticism on offense for short-yardage and/or redzone play. This guy (to me) is basically the Pat White of this year's defensive class.

[Hound]

I really like Connor Barwin... not crazy about Cushing though... but people are talking here like he is a DE... and yes he was in college... But he's not the size of Houston DE's... well not the size of most the others... Most the projections I saw on him was at OLB. It looks like we drafted two OLB's... and a TE if we need it. Or maybe Barwin is just a one down DE... and TE.

[johndoe]

I'm hoping we do a lot more with this guy than just a 3rd down lineman. As a converted TE he probably has some pretty good ball skills, so rotating him at WILL isn't completely out of the question (especially when theatening a blitz.)

We also have the potential of using his athleticism on offense for short-yardage and/or redzone play. This guy (to me) is basically the Pat White of this year's defensive class.

Like i said in the other thread, I think this guy might be taking Antonio Smith's job in 2-3 years....

[TexanFan23]

I'm hoping we do a lot more with this guy than just a 3rd down lineman. As a converted TE he probably has some pretty good ball skills, so rotating him at WILL isn't completely out of the question (especially when theatening a blitz.)

We also have the potential of using his athleticism on offense for short-yardage and/or redzone play. This guy (to me) is basically the Pat White of this year's defensive class.

Like I said in the Draft thread, He's almost the same size as Jevon Kearse. When he hits the weight room in a few weeks, He'll bulk up and put on some weight.

He may be a 3rd down guy as a rookie but he'll develope.

[johndoe]

Yall wanted a speed-rusher, my friends, we got one...a good one!!!!

[NjTexanFan]

honestly I like the barwin pick I was hoping matthews with the first pick but cushing will do but I knew we weren't going with a safety with this pick with delmas being taking already, there's a reason moore and brown fell they were both at one point projected as first rounders and when 3 other safeties are taken before moore then I'm glad we didn't pick him

[Neo]

ran a 4.47 at his pro day?

[sir trentalot]

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f88473

check out those combine highlights!!!!

[Coach]

I think we might regret not picking up W.Moore out of Mizzou.

i couldn't agree with you more...i might be in the minority here but i don't like the barwin pick...i think he's a great athlete...there's little doubt in my mind that he's a great from an athletic stand point but how does he work as a RDE? i think he is extremely raw as a DE prospect...i think if the F.O. thought we really needed a rush DE then michael johnson would have been a better value at that stand point...but you know it's April...we will have to wait in see if i'm right or wrong on this kid...love brian cushing think he'll turn out to be as good if not better than chad greenway up in minnesota

[Boz]

Ma ma Mamula :eek:

[TexanFan23]

i couldn't agree with you more...i might be in the minority here but i don't like the barwin pick...i think he's a great athlete...there's little doubt in my mind that he's a great from an athletic stand point but how does he work as a RDE? i think he is extremely raw as a DE prospect...i think if the F.O. thought we really needed a rush DE then michael johnson would have been a better value at that stand point...but you know it's April...we will have to wait in see if i'm right or wrong on this kid...love brian cushing think he'll turn out to be as good if not better than chad greenway up in minnesota

You're not alone, I wanted Johnson too but... Barwin doesn't look too bad. Hell, He had over 10 sacks in his first season as a DE last year. While the Big East isn't exactly the Big 12 or SEC, It's still pretty impressive.

[Se7en]

I think he's talking about the secondary. He's right though, we've been loading up on the D-Line through drafts and the Smith signing but as long as the recievers aren't well covered the QB will always be able to dump off to someone before he gets sacked.

I think our Secondary is better than people give them credit for. Plenty of those long passes will be fixed if we can get a productive blitz package working in our favor. We gave QBs too much time to wait for WRs to get open and with most teams they can tear a secondary to pieces given the time.

The short timeing routes would be the ones I would put on our Secondary though, I am just not sure who else we would have gone for with Jenkins off the board at 15. I am sure wew ill grab a CB or Safety in the later rounds because we clearly need some more secondary strength.

I think we are drafting for BPS on the defensive side of the ball and we are probably eyeing a specific RB for the mid rounds.

[HuttoKarl]

Guy's a freakish athlete. I feel like he can do anything he needs to on a field given some time to figure it out.

[houstonsportsfan09]

Sidbury and Gilbert still on the board.

[johndoe]

Sidbury and Gilbert still on the board.

Barwin was rated higher on ESPN's board than those 2 guys fwiw...

I was thinking Barwin or Michael Johnson.

[lilbush]

If we could snag Shonn Greene in the 3rd things will be going well.

Interested in seeing how we use Barwin. Might even play some TE???

We should not have issues with getting to the QB next year.

[wildroot]

I think our Secondary is better than people give them credit for. Plenty of those long passes will be fixed if we can get a productive blitz package working in our favor. We gave QBs too much time to wait for WRs to get open and with most teams they can tear a secondary to pieces given the time.

The short timeing routes would be the ones I would put on our Secondary though, I am just not sure who else we would have gone for with Jenkins off the board at 15. I am sure wew ill grab a CB or Safety in the later rounds because we clearly need some more secondary strength.

I think we are drafting for BPS on the defensive side of the ball and we are probably eyeing a specific RB for the mid rounds.

I wanted Jenkins but V.Davis would have been OK as well.

You can say the recievers are open cause we're not getting pressure on the QB or the flip side of that is we're not getting pressure on the QB cause the recievers are open and the QB finds them before he's hammered. With all the talent we've got on the D-Line, I lean towards the latter. Too many times last year mario would be in the QBs face and he's throw to whoever Reeves or Faggins was covering.

We got some great talent today, Cushing and Barwin will both be keepers. We just need secondary help big time.

[TexansfaninNY]

I love this pick. What a great pick! I would buy his jersey, if it was made available. I also hope the Texans draft Terrance Taylor...

[bugman7star]

Remember, a better pass rush leads to a better secondary. If these guys play with that high motor and pressure QBs, our secondary will have an easier time defending against the pass.

[johndoe]

I wanted Jenkins but V.Davis would have been OK as well.

You can say the recievers are open cause we're not getting pressure on the QB or the flip side of that is we're not getting pressure on the QB cause the recievers are open and the QB finds them before he's hammered. With all the talent we've got on the D-Line, I lean towards the latter. Too many times last year mario would be in the QBs face and he's throw to whoever Reeves or Faggins was covering.

We got some great talent today, Cushing and Barwin will both be keepers. We just need secondary help big time.

hmm I think we are OK with Robinson and Reeves/Bennett/Molden at the corners and Wilson and Barber at S. The pass rush should make them all better.

I get where you are coming from thought...

[HuttoKarl]

If we could snag Shonn Greene in the 3rd things will be going well.

Interested in seeing how we use Barwin. Might even play some TE???

We should not have issues with getting to the QB next year.

We're all hoping that's the case.

[wildroot]

Remember, a better pass rush leads to a better secondary. If these guys play with that high motor and pressure QBs, our secondary will have an easier time defending against the pass.

We've had a pretty good pass rush but the QB always find someone to dump off to because of our weak coverage. You can look at it either way. The pass rush makes our seconary look good or the secondary give the pass rush time to get on the QB. I just think with all the talent we have on the D-Line and the lack of talent in our secondary (other than D-Rob) that our secondary needed the help more. D-Rob, Bennet, Molden and Reeves had offenses licking their chops to run up their passing stats last year.

Does the chicken or the egg come first?!? LOL!

[TexanFan23]

We've had a pretty good pass rush but the QB always find someone to dump off to because of our weak coverage.
Does the chicken or the egg come first?!? LOL!

A little bit of speed from Cushing and Barwin should cure the dumpoffs imo..

[HuttoKarl]

We've had a pretty good pass rush but the QB always find someone to dump off to because of our weak coverage.
Does the chicken or the egg come first?!? LOL!

Our pass rush the past two years has been Mario and nothing. We've never had good pass rush...just a really good pass rusher.

[Schlauton]

A little bit of speed from Cushing and Barwin should cure the dumpoffs imo..

AND with Barwins CRAZY vert, he can just jump up, and smack OR catch the ball while it is in mid-air.

[Se7en]

A little bit of speed from Cushing and Barwin should cure the dumpoffs imo..

Agreed... I am feeling pretty good about this draft right now.

Hurry up preseason!!!

[wildroot]

It's not just the dump-offs...ya'll don't remember how many times Faggins and Reeves got burned long last year? Faggins is gone now but I don't see a proven upgrade over him on the team and we still have Reeves lookin' the wrong way all the time.

[Texans Rising]

I'll never complain when we pick the highest rated player at the time of our pick, which Barwin was at the time...

[GroovyTexan]

I'll never complain when we pick the highest rated player at the time of our pick, which Barwin was at the time...

ditto.

[Sic_'Em]

yeah that was a good pick! I didn't expect him to last that long.

[South Texan]

This guy looks like the prototype special teams player to me. He may not be the best at anyting, but he is looks good at a lot of things, rushing the passer as a DE or LB, blocking TE, and who knows what else.
It will be interesting to see how they utilize him.

Bottom line, I like the pick.

[281lxm]

I think having talented athletes that are inteligent, and can fly around the ball is fantastic. We have had an enemic pass rush by NFL standards. Whe have depth now who can fly. I see OL confusion with all of our abilities and personnel packages. DR needs to cut his crap, his brand of lip is growing very old. NOBODY is that important...everyone can be replaced DR.:eek:

[doodyps]

This guy looks like the prototype special teams player to me. He may not be the best at anyting, but he is looks good at a lot of things, rushing the passer as a DE or LB, blocking TE, and who knows what else.
It will be interesting to see how they utilize him.

Bottom line, I like the pick.

I'm surprised nobody has made the comparison yet, but he's a lot like James Casey, who a lot of people wanted in the second. I dont know what the coaches expect out of him, but he could potentially be a great special teams player, TE (blocking and catching), FB, 3rd RB, LB, or DE. Obviously, its unlikely to see him at RB, but possible.

[thunderkyss]

We gave QBs too much time to wait for WRs to get open and with most teams they can tear a secondary to pieces given the time.


I wish someone would do a scientific study here. I just don't think we give opposing QBs too much time.

We've been saying forever, that we need to improve our pass rush, and we've been adding DL, OLBs...... but never getting to the QB.

I mean, can you ever remember saying........ "that was a coverage sack", or "Mario can thank our CB/OLB for that one"....

[lilbush]

If we can't get to the QB with Barwin/Smith/Okoye/Mario and Cushing blitzing on 3rd down than we need to just pack it up.

[thunderkyss]

Barwin will play behind Mario and on 3rd down slide Smith inside (Mario, TJ,Smith, Barwin)

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5246

We need to add Bullman in the rotation. He's a high energy guy, though he hasn't got a lot of sacks yet, he puts a lot of pressure on the QB.

it will be AMOBI > TJ

All Day Everyday!

Haven't seen that yet. I believe Kubiak prefers Amobi, but he has not shown to be a better player............ yet.

[wildroot]

I wish someone would do a scientific study here. I just don't think we give opposing QBs too much time.

We've been saying forever, that we need to improve our pass rush, and we've been adding DL, OLBs...... but never getting to the QB.

I mean, can you ever remember saying........ "that was a coverage sack", or "Mario can thank our CB/OLB for that one"....

I don't think we were giving the reciever's too much time to get open, I think they were always open so the QB had his "out" all the time. That's why sacks were few and far between.

[pure_respect]

Haven't seen that yet. I believe Kubiak prefers Amobi, but he has not shown to be a better player............ yet.

Okoye finished his rookie year by setting a franchise rookie record for sacks, and was 2nd amongst DT's in the same category. Even with a bad year last year, he still has shown to be a much better player than TJ.

I just hope he returns to his rookie form, especially now that we've reinforced our front 7.

[wildroot]

If we can't get to the QB with Barwin/Smith/Okoye/Mario and Cushing blitzing on 3rd down than we need to just pack it up.

Doesn't make any difference if you got a D-line stacked with probowlers....If the recievers are open you'll never sack the QB. How many sacks did Mario miss out on last year cause at the last instant the QB threw the ball for a completion? If the recievers are covered the D-Line can have a field day in the O-backfield.
Cushing/Barwin are good players but I didn't see LB and DL as priority areas to draft for. We've been crying about our poor secondary for how long now?

[SuperstarII]

think both of those picks are poor choices. we have 5 solid lb's and just gave a fa DE a bunch of money. there are bigger holes on def.

agreed with this statement.

[pure_respect]

I don't think we were giving the reciever's too much time to get open, I think they were always open so the QB had his "out" all the time. That's why sacks were few and far between.

You have a valid point Wildroot, but I'd also take into consideration that Smith's defensive scheme contained a lot of zone coverage and practically no blitzes to read. If the QB can diagnose that before the play, we don't stand much of a chance of getting to him before he can get the ball out.

I'm hoping that these picks are merely reinforcing our new "more aggressive" (Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it) with these players.

I'm still skeptical of Cushing (my mock had us taking V. Davis despite his character issues) but I can't hate the pick until I see what our defense is trying to accomplish with these picks, and whether or not the new scheme will bring out the best in our secondary.

[wildroot]

Okoye finished his rookie year by setting a franchise rookie record for sacks, and was 2nd amongst DT's in the same category. Even with a bad year last year, he still has shown to be a much better player than TJ.

I just hope he returns to his rookie form, especially now that we've reinforced our front 7.

A Franchise-Rookie-Record for sacks....how many rookie D-Lineman have we started in our short history? That stat just doesen't seem to carry much weight considering how new a team we are.

[pure_respect]

A Franchise-Rookie-Record for sacks....how many rookie D-Lineman have we started in our short history? That stat just doesen't seem to carry much weight considering how new a team we are.

My point was him being better than TJ, not that he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Now, him being second amongst DT"s in sacks (only behind Tommie Harris) does say something about him.

Like I said before one good (not great) season + one bad season = one mediocre player. I'm hoping that he'll turn a corner this year, but I wouldn't be surprised if he just stayed 'average.'

[Extinction]

not at all. i would have liked to see someone like jenkins, but he got picked right before the texans. we could have gotten sean smith or william moore in the 2nd round and really helped the secondary out.

[TexansNutt]

Doesn't make any difference if you got a D-line stacked with probowlers....If the recievers are open you'll never sack the QB. How many sacks did Mario miss out on last year cause at the last instant the QB threw the ball for a completion? If the recievers are covered the D-Line can have a field day in the O-backfield.
Cushing/Barwin are good players but I didn't see LB and DL as priority areas to draft for. We've been crying about our poor secondary for how long now?

The draft isn't over yet. I'm confident we will get at least 2 DB's to help and if D-Rob would stop acting like DIVA!

[El Tejano]

I'll admit, I thought I was looking at Jason Babin but after checking out this dude on youtube, the name Ray Childress kept popping up.

[Wolf123]

Doesn't make any difference if you got a D-line stacked with probowlers....If the recievers are open you'll never sack the QB. How many sacks did Mario miss out on last year cause at the last instant the QB threw the ball for a completion? If the recievers are covered the D-Line can have a field day in the O-backfield.
Cushing/Barwin are good players but I didn't see LB and DL as priority areas to draft for. We've been crying about our poor secondary for how long now?

And it doesn't matter if you have a secondary full of Pro bowlers if you don't have a pass rush you won't stop anyone either. You need both groups to be successful. The texans had only two players capable of rushing the passer last year and one was injured the whole season. Atleast the secondary had dunta and Eugene, and some promising young players like bennet and molden.

[wildroot]

And it doesn't matter if you have a secondary full of Pro bowlers if you don't have a pass rush you won't stop anyone either. You need both groups to be successful. The texans had only two players capable of rushing the passer last year and one was injured the whole season. Atleast the secondary had dunta and Eugene, and some promising young players like bennet and molden.

We been stacking up the D-Line with 1st rounders for 3 of the last 4 years now and the signing of Smith to top it off. That GROUP OUGHT to be successful with the pedigree on that line. D-Rob is the only 1st round draft pick in the secondary. The rest are lower round picks or cast-offs from other teams. See the inequity here? How can our secondary be expected to pull their weight when they're being staffed with 2nd day picks?

[Wolf123]

We been stacking up the D-Line with 1st rounders for 3 of the last 4 years now and the signing of Smith to top it off. That GROUP OUGHT to be successful with the pedigree on that line. D-Rob is the only 1st round draft pick in the secondary. The rest are lower round picks or cast-offs from other teams. See the inequity here? How can our secondary be expected to pull their weight when they're being staffed with 2nd day picks?

It doesn't matter what pick they are but rather what players your getting. Who cares if the whlole d-line is first rounders if they still can't get to the qb or who care if the secondary has only one first rounder if they shut down everyone. It only matters the talent level that we have at each position and not where those players were drafted. The pass rush should be much better this year with the addition of Barwin,cushing,healthy okoye and antonio smith. The secondary should also be better, reeves played much better at the end of the year and wilson is a good player.

[Playmaker]

I understand the concern with our secondary but if the Texans graded all the defensive backs in each draft and feel none were worth their high draft picks, then I trust they did the right thing for not reaching on a player that could be there later in the draft anyways. I thought the general prognosis was that this was a weak defensive back draft anyways. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[Wolf123]

The best teams consistantly have great D-lines and not as good of players in the secondary.

Steelers
Patriots
Colts
Giants
chicago
Panthers-when they reached the superbowl
Titans

[GroovyTexan]

It doesn't matter what pick they are but rather what players your getting. Who cares if the whlole d-line is first rounders if they still can't get to the qb or who care if the secondary has only one first rounder if they shut down everyone. It only matters the talent level that we have at each position and not where those players were drafted. The pass rush should be much better this year with the addition of Barwin,cushing,healthy okoye and antonio smith. The secondary should also be better, reeves played much better at the end of the year and wilson is a good player.

well said - that's a good way to think about it. hopefully the sum is greater than the parts. that's the end goal, right? who cares if we nail every move as long as the sum produces better results than the past.

[Playmaker]

One thing I do notice in some of those teams is that defensive leader in one of those safety positions, the one who is all over the place making plays.

[Wolf123]

One thing I do notice in some of those teams is that defensive leader in one of those safety positions, the one who is all over the place making plays.

Yea but D-line is clearly the most import positions that each teams look at.

[pure_respect]

We been stacking up the D-Line with 1st rounders for 3 of the last 4 years now and the signing of Smith to top it off. That GROUP OUGHT to be successful with the pedigree on that line. D-Rob is the only 1st round draft pick in the secondary. The rest are lower round picks or cast-offs from other teams. See the inequity here? How can our secondary be expected to pull their weight when they're being staffed with 2nd day picks?

Cortland Finnegan (7th round pick in 2006) was in the pro bowl last year. You could argue that Cortland is that talented, or that he was merely benefiting from a defense that was 5th last year in sacks. Both arguments are valid, but I wouldn't immediately discount the ability of later-round talent.

Yes, we probably would have benefited more from selecting a DB instead of Cushing/Barwin. However, I'm guessing that our new defensive coordinator has something in mind for these two players to take them ahead of the others available... or they just did not have those players highly rated.

We've had our best luck with players in the 3rd/4th round lately. So tommorow morning cannot come soon enough for me.

[spurstexanstros]

i couldn't agree with you more...i might be in the minority here but i don't like the barwin pick...i think he's a great athlete...there's little doubt in my mind that he's a great from an athletic stand point but how does he work as a RDE? i think he is extremely raw as a DE prospect...i think if the F.O. thought we really needed a rush DE then michael johnson would have been a better value at that stand point...but you know it's April...we will have to wait in see if i'm right or wrong on this kid...love brian cushing think he'll turn out to be as good if not better than chad greenway up in minnesota

I am right with you....this is the biggest reach since Jason Babin and how is everyone describing Barwin...like they described Babin.
We need secondary help and secondary depth.

[GroovyTexan]

I am right with you....this is the biggest reach since Jason Babin and how is everyone describing Barwin...like they described Babin.
We need secondary help and secondary depth.

at least Barwin earned an All-American honorable mention and comes out of better conference. I can vaguely see the comparison but Barwin is a much better athlete - he was rated as one of the best athletes in the entire draft - and can play TE, H-back, DE, and OLB on top of being a special teams super star. He is certainly not a reach like Babin was.

Here is a nice article about him -

http://cincinnati.scout.com/a.z?s=341&p=2&c=851822

also, here is a caption from one of his scouting reports:

Pass Rush and Blitz: Barwin is very capable of becoming a quality pass rusher, thanks to his pad level, change of direction agility and quickness off the snap. When he explodes off the ball and gathers in the middle of his pass rush, few bigger blockers have the quickness to mirror him. He is quickly learning how to dip for arm action pressure and has a nice reverse spin move to attack from the back door. Once he learns to use his hands, he will be much more effective using inside counter moves. He has the proper pad level needed to work on the offensive lineman's edge when working in-line. He is simply a quick-twitch type with an explosive upfield burst and smooth hips. He shows very good rip, swim, counter and bull rush moves. He will sometimes get a little too anxious in pursuit and overshoot the quarterback, but is quick to recover and get back into the action. His counter moves are becoming quite effective, especially when bending around the corner. With Barwin's upfield speed and knee bend, when he comes off the corner he can easily beat the offensive tackle or counter back inside if the blocker over-plays him on the outside. He has also started to develop a nice array of pass rush moves (spin move is the best of any defensive end in the 2009 draft). GRADE: 8.3

[TexanFan23]

I am right with you....this is the biggest reach since Jason Babin and how is everyone describing Barwin...like they described Babin.
We need secondary help and secondary depth.

They said going into the draft they were going to solifidy the front seven. I trust them to add the right peices to take the team over the hump this year. Just have faith and we'll see what the team looks like tomorrow night.

[Whiskeyrbl]

i couldn't agree with you more...i might be in the minority here but i don't like the barwin pick...i think he's a great athlete...there's little doubt in my mind that he's a great from an athletic stand point but how does he work as a RDE? i think he is extremely raw as a DE prospect...i think if the F.O. thought we really needed a rush DE then michael johnson would have been a better value at that stand point...but you know it's April...we will have to wait in see if i'm right or wrong on this kid...love brian cushing think he'll turn out to be as good if not better than chad greenway up in minnesota

I think one reason they may have taken Barwin over Johnson is that Johnson has been said to take plays off and play hard 75% of the time. In Barwins case he is a high motor guy that gives 110% on every play.

[Wolf123]

I am right with you....this is the biggest reach since Jason Babin and how is everyone describing Barwin...like they described Babin.
We need secondary help and secondary depth.

Babin wasn't athletic and relied on his bull rush all the time. This led to him being knocked on the ground alot. The only thing that reminds me of babin is that he's white.

[wildroot]

It doesn't matter what pick they are but rather what players your getting. Who cares if the whlole d-line is first rounders if they still can't get to the qb or who care if the secondary has only one first rounder if they shut down everyone. It only matters the talent level that we have at each position and not where those players were drafted. The pass rush should be much better this year with the addition of Barwin,cushing,healthy okoye and antonio smith. The secondary should also be better, reeves played much better at the end of the year and wilson is a good player.

My point was that we've now invested highly on the D-Line but other than D-Rob have a patchwork secondary made up of low draft picks.
The other point is that for two years we've all been screaming for help in the secondary, that we had to upgrade in the form of high picks. Where did everyone go that was towing this line? Did you all forget? Reeves and Faggins getting burned over and over? All the passing yards opposing teams ran up on us are still burned in my mind and I don't think we've addressed this in the draft or in the form of signing FAs.
I looked back last night and some of the threads that alot of you all contributed to concerning this and....well we'll see what happens today.

Now that we have 42 LBs on the team maybe a trade is in the works....LOL

[zanth91]

I am right with you....this is the biggest reach since Jason Babin and how is everyone describing Barwin...like they described Babin.
We need secondary help and secondary depth.

Babin was drafted to play as a hybrid player for the 3-4. Babin is nowhere as athletic as Barwin. And Barwin is drafted to play DE in the 4-3

[TiredofSuffering]

and that is that we seem to always try to take some uber-athletic kid who may or may not have produced, who has frequently changed positions, who generally didn't stand out, but who has some CRAZY upside. It's almost like we're trying to look like geniuses by finding diamonds in the rough.

Look all the way back.

Babin - We traded half a draft to move up 10 or 12 spots to get this kid because we thought he was an athletic animal. He was a total disaster.

Mario Williams - Did it work out? Hell yes but we clearly took him based on athleticism and potential, not production.

Jacoby Jones - 6'2.5", 210 pounds, 4.38, can't catch a cold in the rain. From a tiny little school where he didn't face a corner bigger than I am for 4 years.

Amobi Okoye - Underaged and oversized with athleticism and the world's greatest upside. Hasn't done jack crap.

Antwan Peek - Come on. Once again, too small for DE, too slow for OLB, took him because he looked like an athletic machine, but he didn't do crap in college and still hasn't.

Duane Brown - This kid gave up more sacks in college than some entire teams. That's not a joke. He is very athletic though and was a tight end when he first got to school, and we reached for a kid with a 3rd round grade by McShay and Kiper, and took him in the first. And by the way, he gave up more sacks than anyone else in the NFL last year if I recall correctly.

I'd like to see us get away from trying to take all the "everybody will be surprised when we steal this super athlete and turn him into a football player" guys and get to taking FOOTBALL PLAYERS from FOOTBALL SCHOOLS who play against REAL COMPETITION, who produce in college.

I like the Cushing pick. Need position, FOOTBALL PLAYER from a FOOTBALL FACTORY, who produced. This Conner Barwin pick is a complete waste. He'll never do anything significant in the league. Too slow for LB, can't cover the pass because he never has had to, too small for DE, total waste of a second round pick.

How much better off would we have been taking a FRIGGING SAFETY, which we have never had int he history of the franchise, especially when Willie Moore from Missouri, who I think has first round talent, was out there? I seriously hate the people in charge of our drafts. It's frustrating as hell.

I'll give them credit for the kid from Alabama as long as they don't try to move him to guard.

[InterestedJeff]

Babin wore make up...
I like Barwin i just didnt think we had a big need for him after we signed A. Smith. I know we need a pass rush but even if he does pan out we selected a career backup lineman with our second pick. I like the guy, I just dont think he was right for us. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[Element1337]

This Conner Barwin pick is a complete waste. He'll never do anything significant in the league. Too slow for LB, can't cover the pass because he never has had to, too small for DE, total waste of a second round pick.

How much better off would we have been taking a FRIGGING SAFETY, which we have never had int he history of the franchise, especially when Willie Moore from Missouri, who I think has first round talent, was out there? I seriously hate the people in charge of our drafts. It's frustrating as hell.

You haven't even seen him play, and my the sound of it you haven't done your research. But you're such a **** head that I don't think it really matters. He runs in the 4.5's. Cushing runs about a 4.7. I guess Cushing is too slow now? I guess we need 4.3-4.4 backers because apparently guys like Demeco can't get the job done. He is characterized for his quick first step and speed rush first and foremost. He's so versatile, the front office fully expects some ability to drop back in coverage. But he is playing DE so that isn't a focus and to me - he can probably go in coverage quite well with just the measurables and versatility at his fingers. I understand this team needs a safety, but they just extended Wilson and if they couldn't get Jenkins then I think they are content with him, he did make plays last year if you didn't see. And everything starts with an effective pass rush...I give you Barwin. You can make average safeties look good with some pressure on the opposing QB. Oh...and just about everyone is commending the Texans on this draft. Do some research.

[TexanJM]

and that is that we seem to always try to take some uber-athletic kid who may or may not have produced, who has frequently changed positions, who generally didn't stand out, but who has some CRAZY upside. It's almost like we're trying to look like geniuses by finding diamonds in the rough.

Look all the way back.

Babin - We traded half a draft to move up 10 or 12 spots to get this kid because we thought he was an athletic animal. He was a total disaster.

Mario Williams - Did it work out? Hell yes but we clearly took him based on athleticism and potential, not production.

Jacoby Jones - 6'2.5", 210 pounds, 4.38, can't catch a cold in the rain. From a tiny little school where he didn't face a corner bigger than I am for 4 years.

Amobi Okoye - Underaged and oversized with athleticism and the world's greatest upside. Hasn't done jack crap.

Antwan Peek - Come on. Once again, too small for DE, too slow for OLB, took him because he looked like an athletic machine, but he didn't do crap in college and still hasn't.

Duane Brown - This kid gave up more sacks in college than some entire teams. That's not a joke. He is very athletic though and was a tight end when he first got to school, and we reached for a kid with a 3rd round grade by McShay and Kiper, and took him in the first. And by the way, he gave up more sacks than anyone else in the NFL last year if I recall correctly.

I'd like to see us get away from trying to take all the "everybody will be surprised when we steal this super athlete and turn him into a football player" guys and get to taking FOOTBALL PLAYERS from FOOTBALL SCHOOLS who play against REAL COMPETITION, who produce in college.

I like the Cushing pick. Need position, FOOTBALL PLAYER from a FOOTBALL FACTORY, who produced. This Conner Barwin pick is a complete waste. He'll never do anything significant in the league. Too slow for LB, can't cover the pass because he never has had to, too small for DE, total waste of a second round pick.

How much better off would we have been taking a FRIGGING SAFETY, which we have never had int he history of the franchise, especially when Willie Moore from Missouri, who I think has first round talent, was out there? I seriously hate the people in charge of our drafts. It's frustrating as hell.

I'll give them credit for the kid from Alabama as long as they don't try to move him to guard.

Where do you get your information? A blind man could have seen the improvement Duane Brown made over the coarse of the season. The Texans have one of the best O-line coaches in the NFL and he and others were so happy with Duane Brown they decided to cut Salaam. You need to get your facts straight before you post erroneous and hateful crap like you posted about Duane Brown and others. You even included Mario Williams and eluded that he was a poor draft choice. I guess you think the Texans should have taken Vince Young or Reggie Williams. Do you even watch football?

The Texans safeties looked bad because there was never a consistent pass rush. No single player, including a safety, could solve the Texans defensive woes. The Texans make moves through the draft and free agency to improve the greatest weakness on the team and you whine about it. You picked a appropriate moniker for yourself. After reading your posts you strike me as someone who can never be happy with anything.

[wildroot]

The Texans safeties looked bad because there was never a consistent pass rush. No single player, including a safety, could solve the Texans defensive woes. The Texans make moves through the draft and free agency to improve the greatest weakness on the team and you whine about it.

Some would say that. Others would say the pass rush was never given a chance to work because the secondary couldn't cover worth a crap. Receivers were open all over the field for the QB to throw to before he got sacked.
Did the pass rush suffer because the seconary left recievers open or did the secondary suffer because of a poor pass rush?
We have a DL stacked with high draft picks and a secondary full of scrubs (other than D-Rob) so I'd have to side with the group that says the passrush is hurt by the poor secondary. If the secondary was loaded with high draft picks and our DL with lesser talent, then I'd side with the group that says our DL needs to be upgraded. That's not the case though. The FO has pretty well ignored the secondary as far as bringing in high-profile help either in the form of FA or high draft picks.

You can argue either side till you're blue in the face but the moves the FO has made are skewed towards the DL making our secondary vulnerable.

And although Duane Brown has improved, he was responsible for numerous sacks. So the jury is still out on him.

[Element1337]

No, our secondary isn't full of scrubs. We just haven't gotten to the quarterback. There isn't really an elite playmaker in the secondary, but that is irrelevant if we can't get to the quarterback. The Steelers secondary is so much more dominant with that pass rush they create. You can't tell me anyone outside of Troy is anything special.

[wildroot]

Perhaps 'scrubs' was a little harsh, but my point is that we have 3 first round picks on our DL and now we've added a high profile player in Antonio Smith to the mix. The secondary hasn't gotten the same attention from the FO as far as high picks or "big name" signings other than D-Rob. If you were going to start a team, would you take our D-Line or our secondary? No question you'd take our D-Line. Why? Because that's where the talent lies.
If our secondary can hold coverage, our D-Line has more time to get to the QB. No one's concerned about our secondary, they're soft. Back-up QBs had career days against our secondary over the last two years.
Like I said, there are two opposing views.

[Element1337]

There aren't many differences between starting CB's in the league besides the few elite ones. The pressure on the quarterback helps in so many ways. I think this season we may see that pressure, and the secondary will step it up as well. The quarterback only has a few seconds, and those few seconds the receivers are covered adequately...I don't care who the CB. If a line will get pressure on the QB then it creates erratic throws, short throws, over throws, or no attempt at all (sacks) which can cover up blemishes in the coverage. It's all related, but the pressure is definitely more important, a corner can only cover man for so long. Eventually, the receivers, especially those in the NFL will find a hole in coverage to get the completion. I think if you were to ask any coach they would say the pressure on the quarterback pays more dividends than having no pressure and a secondary of "elite defensive backs". I agree this team focuses more on the defensive line, but honestly if you were to watch any number of NFL games it all starts up front. The Patriots defense (based on points allowed) was 8th in the NFL...the Raiders? 26th. The Raiders have the best corner in the league and spent lots of money on their secondary. Their dline? Not so much. The Patriots have one of the best lines in the NFL and very talented backers. Trust me - that "bad" secondary will be quite good if we can get the front seven working like the coaches are imagining.

[TheGoaT]

I love to see the delicious tears after someones favorite players didn't get drafted.

[Dominator52]

I love to see the delicious tears after someones favorite players didn't get drafted.

Your bad. I like it.:D

[Yosarian]

I love to see the delicious tears after someones favorite players didn't get drafted.

south park overdose

:D

[thunderkyss]

There aren't many differences between starting CB's in the league besides the few elite ones. The pressure on the quarterback helps in so many ways. I think this season we may see that pressure, and the secondary will step it up as well. The quarterback only has a few seconds, and those few seconds the receivers are covered adequately...I don't care who the CB. If a line will get pressure on the QB then it creates erratic throws, short throws, over throws, or no attempt at all (sacks) which can cover up blemishes in the coverage. It's all related, but the pressure is definitely more important, a corner can only cover man for so long.

We've got to stop thinking this way.

Our pressure on the QB has been avg at times, better than avg at others.. and poor from time to time. compared to the avg NFL team, we've been right there. Teams like the Steelers or the Eagles are better than avg on the majority of their snaps.

The biggest difference between us, and a team like the Falcons, or the Ravens, is that those teams coverage is better than avg more often than ours.

Don't get me wrong, I understand... more pressure= more INTs....... but it's a balance, and our pass rush has been better than our coverage for the last two years.

[Element1337]

Our pressure has been average at best. I can't imagine that line without Mario...

[wildroot]

We've got to stop thinking this way.

Our pressure on the QB has been avg at times, better than avg at others.. and poor from time to time. compared to the avg NFL team, we've been right there. Teams like the Steelers or the Eagles are better than avg on the majority of their snaps.

The biggest difference between us, and a team like the Falcons, or the Ravens, is that those teams coverage is better than avg more often than ours.

Don't get me wrong, I understand... more pressure= more INTs....... but it's a balance, and our pass rush has been better than our coverage for the last two years.

What I been sayin'

[wildroot]

Our pressure has been average at best.

Our coverage has been below average at best.

[Yosarian]

coverage below average=yup
pass rush without mario= non existant

[Yosarian]

We've got to stop thinking this way.

Our pressure on the QB has been avg at times, better than avg at others.. and poor from time to time. compared to the avg NFL team, we've been right there. Teams like the Steelers or the Eagles are better than avg on the majority of their snaps.

The biggest difference between us, and a team like the Falcons, or the Ravens, is that those teams coverage is better than avg more often than ours.

Don't get me wrong, I understand... more pressure= more INTs....... but it's a balance, and our pass rush has been better than our coverage for the last two years. I agree with alot of what you are saying but i'm not sure about this statement..."compared to the avg NFL team, we've been right there."

Sacks 2008 we ranked 27th (thats with marios 12 sacks)
2007- we ranked 21st in the league-Mario 17th on the sack list steady improvement (14 sacks)
2006 we ranked 27th-With mario we got worse Mario was 45th in the league in sacks.
2005 we were tied for 14th but none of our dlinemen were in the top 50

We haven't been "right there" I agree that we need coverage to improve before we ever get a solid sack year. No matter how good your guys up front are, if the recievers are wide open with 10 yard cushions you won't get sacks. Mario is just a freak. Without mario we would be last in the league for 3 years running.

as far as coverage-going by passing yards allowed

2008-16th better than the pass rush
2007-25th worse than the pass rush
2006-22nd better than the pass rush
2005- 24th worse thanthe pass rush.

The pass rush has not been better than the coverage the last two years. But, they both need drastic improvement. This has been an ongoing problem for us. We can't get that last stop to win a game.
We should have spent every pick this year on defense.