Who gets the blame for our secondary woes?

[TheRealJoker]

You make an excellent point. Hoke is well respected on these forums but his track record is not that great imo.
Aside from Dunta, how many players in our secondary could honestly start on atleast 20 other NFL teams?
Our development of our own talent is subpar imo.
Petey = a nickel corner and actually kinda successful for a 6th rounder from our first draft.
CC = SS playing out of position and hasn't exactly developed as a starting caliber SS, although he is a 6th rounder with only 2 years under his belt.
Earl = 4th round pick and decent but not an ideal SS. I expect more out of Earl, given that he was a 1st/2nd round prospect before his injury and Hoke hasn't developed him into anything more than he is.
Bottom line: Our players play to their talent level under Hoke. We need a coach that can get players to overachieve like the Patriots coaches can with their secondary.

[TheRealJoker]

However, my tune about Hoke will quickly change if he can make Fletcher play like the 1st round CB that he is and if he can make Fred Bennett play better than expected of a 4th round pick.
Also, if our secondary can improve their tackling exponentially I will give him kudos...and I know he wants kudos from me :)

[Koolbrz]

I think it's a fair question. Does Jon Hoke deserve much of the blame for our atrocious secondary? Richard Smith? Or do our Defensive Backs have to shoulder all of this?
Aren't you tired of seeing one of our DBs go in to make a tackle and either completely miss, fall backwards upon impact, or get dragged for a few extra yards while trying to arm tackle? I know I am. I've got to think that this is all Jon Hoke's doing. He is our DB coach and he is the one telling our guys who to play in the secondary. I can't tell you how many times last season I saw one of our DBs get dragged over the 1st down marker on a 3rd down play. It's getting to be extremely annoying. I wish Hoke and the guys could hear me through my TV screen on Sundays, because they'd certainly hear my frustrations and my thoughts about this.



I don't blame the coaches for any of this because you can teach, tell, and show a player how to do something, but if he does not go out there and DO IT!!! It's not the coaches fault. These guys are proffessionals and get alot of money to go out there and perform. They should not have to have a coach on there azz's during a game on how to hit and wrap. Their salary should be motivation enough to go out there and do there best. Hell, i coach 11 yrs. that go out there and hit like the big boys. They play with desire and give me there all. They should be able to do the same considering that they are PROFFESSIONALS. So no, i don't blame the coaches. I point my finger at the players.

[16wins]

I think you're dead on about the incredibly poor takling form (which will seemingly be Hoke's fault to the largest extent);however, I'm just not sure how much blame can be fairly handed out to a single person. Remember the D-line wasn't getting any solid pass rushes for years which is gonna complicate matters for the secondary, too. After all, with this off-season we brought in Okoye (figuring, among other things, that Okoye will be able to rush from the inside making it more difficult to double team Williams) and Coach Franklin to solve that mess. It's clear that Texans' brass are hoping that a solid defense up front will create enough disruption to bolster defensive play in the secondary. In short, I feel that the secondary woes are result from an enture defensive team debacle, not just the inadequacies of any oone person. Hopefully , opponents this year will too often find their faces maskes pushed three inches into the turf by the likes of Mario Williams, Amobi Okoye, and Demeco Ryans to exploit our secondary all that much. We'll see.

[caddy]

I know... I know who gets the blame.... Carr.

[aj]

I know... I know who gets the blame.... Carr.
Look, we all know by now that you have a fathead of your boy on your bedroom wall, but can you leave threads alone when the discussion (as weak as it is) is not about the past or future QB position?

[caddy]

I know... I know who gets the blame.... Carr.
Look, we all know by now that you have a fathead of your boy on your bedroom wall, but can you leave threads alone when the discussion (as weak as it is) is not about the past or future QB position?
Sorry AJ - I thought we were play the blame game. So, I'm wrong about it not being Davids fault... who would have have known..

[rush2112mn]

Pressure......thats the word. If you are not getting any pressure on the opposing qb, then he will pick your secondary apart. And that is what has been happening to the Texans last couple of year. No pressure = pick you apart I dont care what coverage you are using. Hopefully that situation has been solved now. I expect constant pressure. Like I said in another reply to something....John Madden said it best.........Its won in the trenches.......

[Vinny]

It's hard to blame anyone in the secondary when your best pass rusher has 4.5 sacks in a season.

[CloakNNNDagger]

I think it's a fair question. Does Jon Hoke deserve much of the blame for our atrocious secondary? Richard Smith? Or do our Defensive Backs have to shoulder all of this?
Aren't you tired of seeing one of our DBs go in to make a tackle and either completely miss, fall backwards upon impact, or get dragged for a few extra yards while trying to arm tackle? I know I am. I've got to think that this is all Jon Hoke's doing. He is our DB coach and he is the one telling our guys who to play in the secondary. I can't tell you how many times last season I saw one of our DBs get dragged over the 1st down marker on a 3rd down play. It's getting to be extremely annoying. I wish Hoke and the guys could hear me through my TV screen on Sundays, because they'd certainly hear my frustrations and my thoughts about this.



I don't blame the coaches for any of this because you can teach, tell, and show a player how to do something, but if he does not go out there and DO IT!!! It's not the coaches fault. These guys are proffessionals and get alot of money to go out there and perform. They should not have to have a coach on there azz's during a game on how to hit and wrap. Their salary should be motivation enough to go out there and do there best. Hell, i coach 11 yrs. that go out there and hit like the big boys. They play with desire and give me there all. They should be able to do the same considering that they are PROFFESSIONALS. So no, i don't blame the coaches. I point my finger at the players.

In all fairness to Hoke, he doesn't exactly have the "cream of the crop" to work with. But it's still his job as a coach to get the absolute most out of our DBs. I don't think it's fair for anyone to use the excuse "maybe our players have just hit a ceiling and aren't going to get any better."

That's a huge pet peeve of mine...when a player goes to make a tackle and instead of body tackling and making the ballcarrier fall back, HE's the one that gets dragged for a few extra yards after contact. Lunging is also something with this secondary that's got to stop. Stay on your feet and make a clean tackle.
I would love nothing more than for Marvin Harrison and Peyton Manning to have to look for their mouthpieces when they get up after a hit from one of our DBs.


When you see these things happening consistently, if you're not dealing with a coward-like Buchanon player, then you have to consider that the explanation may reside in one of two factors:
1)The player does not have enough speed to position himself properly for the tackles
and/or
2)The player does not have the ability to change direction quickly to follow shifty RB's, TE's and WR's.

[HydrOshocK]

The blame for our DBs getting burned on deep passing routes falls 50% on our D-line for not getting pressue on the QB and leaving our secondary to stay with receivers that much longer, and 50% on the DBs for allowing themselves to get out of position.
The blame for our DBs not tackling and getting dragged for extra yrds by the opposing running back falls 100% on them. Nothing gets under my skin more than a soft secondary. That's why I was glad to see Buchanan go. The SS especially should be a force in the backfield, solid at tackling and laying big hits on opposing players. When I think of great DBs I think of players like Ronnie Lott. Receivers were afraid to go across the middle and RBs knew when they broke into the secondary that they had to watch out if Lott had a clean run at them. Roy Williams is another one that comes to mind. I really hope we see more big hit highlights our of our secondary this yr.
But getting the players to play with that extra effort and motivation is 100% on Hoke and the coaching staff.

[TK_Gamer]

I think we have an overall weak secondary that compounds its weakness due to where those weaknesses are. One poplular argument for Drob's mediocre play has been "he has no confidence in the safeties, so he cant go for int's and has to play off the recievers". Well I agree, and I put our weakest position at FS, CC is just not a FS, plain and simple, he is not fast enough, has poor coverage skills and poor tackling. Petey is a very good nickel CB, but that's it, so having him play CB2 is putting more pressure on the aforementioned weak FS. Now add in the spotty pressure from the front 4 and you compound all those problems even more. We took a big step in improving the front 4 pressure with the pickup of Okoye, and the probable improvement of Williams. That's one thing out of the way hopefully. We added a bunch of new talent to the secondary, but all of it is questionable or unproven. we will have to see who steps up from that group. Is there a possible FS in the group? who knows. Is there a possible CB2 in the group? again, who knows, we may get lucky, but I think we should have fixed at least one of the other 2 weaknesses, either a FS or a bonafide CB2. Maybe we will be able to snag someone after the june cuts. or from the final cuts after preseason. As far as the original post goes, we blame the front office for not adressing the key position needs in my oppinion. If you have a bunch of mediocre players that are playing out of their position, what do you expect? Lets hope we grabbed a few sleepers somehow and they are able to come in and at least put a bandaid on a wounded secondary. Go Texans!

[doct3rj]

Well tackling, I guess you can blame player/coach. But as far as coverage, I think we need to see more pressure from our defensive line on the opposing QB before we can say we have bad cover corners. Every corner will get beat if you give the QB long enough time to find someone open. But ya you are right. Team's last year avg 65% completions against us, the 2nd highest in the NFL.

[HOU-TEX]

It's hard to blame anyone in the secondary when your best pass rusher has 4.5 sacks in a season.
I'd agree with this before pointing the finger at Hoke. If there were a coach to blame, it'd be Smith. I think Smith will eventually be phased out of the defensive decision making. Kubiak wanted Bush last year, couldn't get him and settled for Smith. Kubiak now has his man, so what does that say for Smith? C-ya