Zone blocking

[Erratic Assassin]

First of all, great game. I love it that these 2 teams seem to truly hate each other. The Texans finally showed some heart today.

Is anyone else concerned about the ZBS? The running game was non-existent & that can't continue. Everytime Schaub handed the ball off it was like running into a brick wall. I saw no openings whatsoever. You might be able to get away with that in one particular game but you're not going to get away with that in the long run.

We've been running this ZBS for years. If I remember correctly, we were using it before Kubiak got here & we were supposedly doing it wrong. Then Kubiak was supposed to get things straight but I guess he was too busy being a head coach to worry too much about the O-line so we brought in Alex Gibbs, the guru of the ZBS, to get things straight & I'm still seeing nothing. We've run out of excuses. There's no one else we can bring in to teach us the "right way". And just to be clear, it wasn't working when Chester Pitts was in there either.

[rittenhouserobz]

I may be wrong, but didn't Denver's running game thrive using this scheme. It is possible that the problem is the players and not the scheme.

We have faced a couple tough defenses so far. Since the goal is to reach the Super Bowl, we can safely say that whatever team we face in the SB will have a solid defense. I hope we make some adjustments before the end of the season, if we are are still not able to get 100+ yards rushing in weeks 5-7.

[sicemtexans]

Thats very interesting that you mention that the ZBS could be a flawed system but I am going to have to agree with DieHard.

However, I was looking at some offensive statistics and everyone here knows how our offense was ranked what 3rd? 4th? last season, but that was not exactly translating into points. Well the Denver Broncos who also used the ZBS also had very high amounts of yards between the endzones but struggled to score. I was just thinking that perhaps there is a correlation between ZBS teams and having red-zone troubles. I should not however overthink this. Most likely our Red Zone issues last season had a lot to do with our inability to move the ball on the ground in the Red Zone.

I believe so far it has had more to do with the play calling. I feel like we are running the ball between the tackles wayyy too much on first down. I do believe though it set up the play action Andre Johnson TD pass; was it on first down?

My final point is that if our Oline protects Matt Schaub the way they did yesterday week in and week out I really do not care what scheme they use.

[chjoak]

We have some decent guys on our OL but we definitely have some weak points.

Brown - solid in pass protection but struggles in ZBS
Pitts/Studdard - solid but having injury issues. Tough to say with Studdard since he hasn't got much PT
Myers - decent size & speed for a ZBS but is not strong enough. Huge weak spot
Briesel - decent backup but shouldn't be starting. Not making the weak C look any better
Winston - solid

Basically if we don't find a way to replace our 3 interior lineman by next season we will be in trouble. Caldwell will likely take one spot and Studdard could develop this season with Pitts going down. Which means we will need a high (top 3 round) OL in the next draft and possibly a decent FA to fill the depth charts.

I really wish we would have addressed the issue in FA this past offseason. There were a couple very solid mid-tier OL (Hangartner, current starting C for Buffalo) that would have made an impact.

[chjoak]

My final point is that if our Oline protects Matt Schaub the way they did yesterday week in and week out I really do not care what scheme they use.


We don't use ZBS for pass protection. I think that is part of the problem. The guys we have are decent to good in pass protection but are struggling with ZBS for the running game.

[281lxm]

The back must hit the designed hole (seam) and cut! The back must be quick, and decisive. If the back hesitates out of the blocks and does not expload to the hole, the seam is closed. Lack of conviction is a killer. I think the ZBS base is simple and timing is critical. If the timing from the backfield is off, so is the scheme. If contingencies are put in to the base ZBS, doubt is added and it clouds the quickness element by the big uglies.

ZBS is 2 ypc 2 ypc bam 19 ypc. Keep with it, but do not be afraid to do more of a rotation until it works. Each runner has a chance to bust it (5 or more ypc) so just don't stay with 1 player. ROTATE ROTATE ROTATE.

[Sprtsfanatic]

The back must hit the designed hole (seam) and cut! The back must be quick, and decisive. If the back hesitates out of the blocks and does not expload to the hole, the seam is closed. Lack of conviction is a killer. I think the ZBS base is simple and timing is critical. If the timing from the backfield is off, so is the scheme. If contingencies are put in to the base ZBS, doubt is added and it clouds the quickness element by the big uglies.

ZBS is 2 ypc 2 ypc bam 19 ypc. Keep with it, but do not be afraid to do more of a rotation until it works. Each runner has a chance to bust it (5 or more ypc) so just don't stay with 1 player. ROTATE ROTATE ROTATE.

I agree and I'll also agree with another thread about slaton's added weight seems to make him more slugish. I'll also throw in there that he seems to be dancing in the backfield more. He did not do that last year...he just hit the hole and cut and was gone...now it looks as if he's tentative and trying to juke before he even gets to the hole and by the time he does his window of opportunity is gone.

[Erratic Assassin]

We have some decent guys on our OL but we definitely have some weak points.

Brown - solid in pass protection but struggles in ZBS
Winston - solid

Wasn't Brown specifically chosen over what most teams would consider better linemen because he was a better fit for the ZBS?

Winston was awesome. I loved watching the Geico caveman get into it with Vanden Bosch & his red contacts. They look like 2 characters straight out Smackdown.

[blake1776]

2008 Regular Season Rushing Defensive stats

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorysta...1&d-447263-n=1

3 Baltimore Ravens

6 Tennessee Titans

7 New York Jets

So the Ravens had the 3 best rush d? and the d coordinator went to the team with the 7th best rush D, that JUST BEAT NE

Titans had #6 Rush D last year and only lost one player that didn't play ever snap and was more impressive against the pass, but still good against the run, but they also got more players better players for the rotation

What makes you say Brown is bad? He clears most of holes if you watch the games. Our interior line is the problem only because they are all so weak.

Also, Slaton ran for over 1200 yards last year using THE SAME ZBS... This post looks like it is from last year.

[MrTexan Slim]

I agree that the zbs is not the problem. Can we use some freshmeat on the O line, sure but not until next season. I also agree that Slaton's weight gain seems to have affected his explosiveness. Now he is trying to bust through the line and power it in there instead of making that one cut and going. I think he'll come around and lose some of the bulk put on throughout the season. People say we played two tough team defenses the past two weeks and I agree, but Steve was one of the few running backs in the league that rushed for 100 yards against tennessee, and he did it twice! And they had Haynesworth.

[Erratic Assassin]

However, I was looking at some offensive statistics and everyone here knows how our offense was ranked what 3rd? 4th? last season, but that was not exactly translating into points.

I guess it depends on how offenses are ranked. Are they ranked by yards gained?

An offense should be ranked on 2 measures: points scored & time of possession (your opponent cannot score as long as you maintain possession).

The object of the game is to outscore your opponent, not to gain more yards than your opponent. That was the problem with the run & shoot. You can move the ball long distances in a short period of time but you fail miserably when it comes to doing the 2 things that matter: scoring points & maintaining possession so your opponent doesn't have an opportunity to score.

[Erratic Assassin]

The back must hit the designed hole (seam) and cut!

But did you see any holes?

I was kind of distracted & didn't get to watch the game as intently as I would have liked but everytime I looked I didn't see any holes. I saw a brick wall. It appeared to me that we failed miserably in creating holes.

[Aztequila]

I wouldn't rush to worry about the running game. We played two teams that are very good at stopping the run. I think the reason we were able to come back and make those big plays were because Tennessee was so focused on stopping SS. The result was great plays when we used play-action passes. I look for our run game to even out over the next few weeks. After seeing what the Jets did to the Pats, and how we looked offensively against the Titans, we can still be team we figured to be this off-season. That being said, we need to figure out how get up on the jets as we will be seeing them again this year.

[youngtexanbull]

I dunno if it's because the teams we've played or we're getting away from it, but I haven't seen alot of the ZBS. If I remember correctly it's about stretching the defense. As the defense is stretched seams are formed. The back is asked to look for those seams and hit them hard as soon as they appear. Theoretically the cutback can open up anywhere. Like I said I dunno if we're getting away from it or if the defense is just blowing our line up. The last few games I haven't seen the line really stretch and Slaton and Brown have been trying to beat it down the middle. (I don't understand why they're so insistent on doing so when our interior line is so undersized.) Hopefully we see more of it in the coming weeks.

[Coog]

I wouldn't rush to worry about the running game. We played two teams that are very good at stopping the run. I think the reason we were able to come back and make those big plays were because Tennessee was so focused on stopping SS. The result was great plays when we used play-action passes. I look for our run game to even out over the next few weeks. After seeing what the Jets did to the Pats, and how we looked offensively against the Titans, we can still be team we figured to be this off-season. That being said, we need to figure out how get up on the jets as we will be seeing them again this year.

Exactly. On Dre's long bomb, both safeties bit hook, line, and sinker on the play action to Slaton. On Jacoby's, they bit too, but because Schaub had to throw across the field, it gave one time to get back and slow him enough to keep it from being 6.

[Texan Naija]

We have some decent guys on our OL but we definitely have some weak points.

Brown - solid in pass protection but struggles in ZBS



Absolutely disagree.

The knock on Brown just last year, was that he was great at running downs but weak at pass protection. This year he has improved his pass protection game enough to give DE's like Jared Allen fits and was the one area of the field you rarely saw people simply running around or through him to get to Schaub during the Jets game.

As for his fitting the ZBS scheme, I think the fact that both times Slaton lost the ball that he was able to immediately recover it even 9 yards away from the line shows that per the scheme he can get up to next level as the ZBS requires. A lot of the problems we are seeing this season in the run have originated from either Slaton, superior defenses targeting him or breakdowns in the interior of our offensive line. Our tackles other then making a few mistakes now and then are still doing very good jobs at their positions.

[srstex]

I say the key to our running game lies in our passing game, we need to give the defenses a reason not to bring 8 in the box no matter what the down & distance. On two of our TD's we weren't even in the red zone, and maybe that's the scheme that works for us. Of course the other teams will adjust, and then our running game will be facing 6 (?) in the box, which means the RB is one on one with a defender, which should be advantage RB.

[Bluedog68]

I know we don't have alot of power or size between the tackles, but they move so well that it makes up for it. ZBS is not about over powering anybody, but getting a hat on everybody and creating seams for a ballcarrier with great vision. Both games it appeared the defences were keying on Slaton and were, as many stated, getting toreup by playaction. The running game will open up the further into the season we get and get our rythem back.

[55Olinesdad]

We have some decent guys on our OL but we definitely have some weak points.

Brown - solid in pass protection but struggles in ZBS
Pitts/Studdard - solid but having injury issues. Tough to say with Studdard since he hasn't got much PT
Myers - decent size & speed for a ZBS but is not strong enough. Huge weak spot
Briesel - decent backup but shouldn't be starting. Not making the weak C look any better
Winston - solid

Basically if we don't find a way to replace our 3 interior lineman by next season we will be in trouble. Caldwell will likely take one spot and Studdard could develop this season with Pitts going down. Which means we will need a high (top 3 round) OL in the next draft and possibly a decent FA to fill the depth charts.

I really wish we would have addressed the issue in FA this past offseason. There were a couple very solid mid-tier OL (Hangartner, current starting C for Buffalo) that would have made an impact.

Its pretty obvious that you dont fully understand Zone Blocking. Its a PROVEN system that has done very well for quite a few teams. I am just estatic your not on the coaching staff at this point. Blinks.