The Oline Is The Main Problem

[TexHorns]

First off I like to say that I know this loss was very draining for everyone and I do believe that there were multipe factors involved(coaching, Shaub, Pressure on QB in first half) as to why we lost. With that said, I really tried to look at what I thought is keeping us from being a consistant team week in and week out and the main thing IMO stems from the interior Oline play. It is crushing our run game and is the only thing keeping us from sustaining drives at will. I really see the interior oline as our glaring problem now. I think Pollard, Quinn and Reeves has really lifted our secondary and tackling but the interior line, especially at the center position, is getting manhandled. I know im not the first to mention the Interior oline. Before I saw our secondary as the main problem, now with the new shuffle back there it looks alot better so I started to look at why we were so sluggish to start games and I think its the penetration into our back field. To me not coverting those short yards is just proof of this. Also I noticed that Slaton does alot better when we dump pass to him negating the penetration of the DTs,maybe we should do that more until we get a real force in the middle. Any thought?

[TexHorns]

I see the same thing, maybe we can get one in free agency so there wont be such a learning curve. I think the tell tale sign is that Slaton runs great on nickel defense, stretches and pitches so that to me says the middle is stuffed. I dont think any back could run through the tackles on most of those plays, theres just no room.

[twinsfan]

Slaton is a quick, not fast RB, who has some power. His problem this year is either the extra weight he put on or he is thinking too much, or a combination. When Moats comes in he runs the same plays but looks much faster. I was surprised that Moats wasn't back there yesterday, he did play on special teams.
The problem is the line isn't a road grader/mauler type, they are ZB finesse players, so it is hard for them to be successful on the goal line. AZ blew them up on fourth down, period.

[chjoak]

The big problem is that we were saying this same thing last season and nothing was done to address it.

- In FA we could have signed Geoff Hangartner who has experience playing both C & G. He is currently starting C for the Bills.
- In the draft we had the opportunity to draft Unger in the 2nd round instead of Barwin. I like Barwin but a starting C would be more valuable right now.
- In the 3rd we drafted a C/G that could be our big mauling starter. However the coaches decided he should be able to play both positions for depth purposes. This has slowed his development and now he is inactive most games.

[ubecool454]

First off I like to say that I know this loss was very draining for everyone and I do believe that there were multipe factors involved(coaching, Shaub, Pressure on QB in first half) as to why we lost. With that said, I really tried to look at what I thought is keeping us from being a consistant team week in and week out and the main thing IMO stems from the interior Oline play. It is crushing our run game and is the only thing keeping us from sustaining drives at will. I really see the interior oline as our glaring problem now. I think Pollard, Quinn and Reeves has really lifted our secondary and tackling but the interior line, especially at the center position, is getting manhandled. I know im not the first to mention the Interior oline. Before I saw our secondary as the main problem, now with the new shuffle back there it looks alot better so I started to look at why we were so sluggish to start games and I think its the penetration into our back field. To me not coverting those short yards is just proof of this. Also I noticed that Slaton does alot better when we dump pass to him negating the penetration of the DTs,maybe we should do that more until we get a real force in the middle. Any thought?

I'm not all for blaming the O Line...they must have been doing something right for us to score 21 points....I blame the defensive line for lack of pressure...and one person in particular I wish they would bench for a long time until he shows more effort.....Okoye..thats right Okoye....I'm reviewing the game as I type this post and this guy is never going to be good. Why not bench this guy and let Coty and Frank Okam get the reps. I was one that was on Travis Johnsons side and no one can tell me that Okoye brings more to the table than he did....if you tell me I won't listen. Bench #91 until he grows up....and I hope thats the last time we draft any teenagers!

[Mr.Scarface]

I'm not all for blaming the O Line...they must have been doing something right for us to score 21 points....I blame the defensive line for lack of pressure...and one person in particular I wish they would bench for a long time until he shows more effort.....Okoye..thats right Okoye....I'm reviewing the game as I type this post and this guy is never going to be good. Why not bench this guy and let Coty and Frank Okam get the reps. I was one that was on Travis Johnsons side and no one can tell me that Okoye brings more to the table than he did....if you tell me I won't listen. Bench #91 until he grows up....and I hope thats the last time we draft any teenagers!

The whole Dline was to blame for the 1st half, However, the 2nd half was a different story. Okoye was in the backfield ALOT in the 2nd half. He played a GREAT 2nd half of the game.

[Sprtsfanatic]

okoye is no where near the problem...he came to play this year and has played very well. Its our center and punter that needs to go.

[BMT TEXAN]

The whole Dline was to blame for the 1st half, However, the 2nd half was a different story. Okoye was in the backfield ALOT in the 2nd half. He played a GREAT 2nd half of the game.

Yeah, I noticed Okoye getting good penetration off the LOS. IMO, Okoye & even Barwin were putting pressure on Warner. Impressive part of 2nd half was we saw some of the exotic blitzing schemes we always were hearing bout & they were very effective, making Warner rush alot of his throws in 2nd half. Thid D unit is showing that they are coming together.

[TexHorns]

I do think that our Dline was bad in the first half but this team is definitely an offensive oriented team and we have to be able to run, control the time of posession and keep our defense off the field. Even back to preseason the running game hasnt been the same.

[gregastory]

okoye is no where near the problem...he came to play this year and has played very well. Its our center and punter that needs to go.

Dude you guys need to get off Turk's back... he had a bad punt. I can't believe you're including our PUNTER as a point of weakness on a team with so many others.

With that said, I think Okoye batted down two passes yesterday as well. I've actually been fairly impressed with his improvement...

The Oline is our biggest problem, followed closely by our secondary. We haven't started the same four guys back there throughout this entire season... I understand they need time to gain experience and learn to play together, but until that happens, I think they're up on the block just as high as the offensive line is.

[mikeinsa]

Studdard and Myers both got blown up on that 4th down play. Myers is the weakest link and when we have trouble it is most often due to pressure up the gut. Dude is a good back up but not starter quality.

[TheReaver]

I don't think we can blame the O-line. We run a ZBS for run plays. The idea of zone blocking is to have smaller, quicker linemen who can move. Is it their fault that we decide to try and pound the middle of a defense that is stacked up with much bigger players? I don't blame them necessarily. If we were the Cowboys who have a conventional huge line and couldn't get that yard, then it would absolutely be their fault. Our O-line actually pass blocks alright, we aren't super but adequate enough to throw for 350+ yards. Our line actually gets the edges of pitch plays pretty well. If our line couldn't pass protect at all or wasn't getting to the edge then we could blame the line. If you have players that do certain things well and you don't do those things then is it really their faults? If the Saints decided to run the ball 80% of the time and failed to score is their O-line then the problem on the team? I don't think it would be. Play-calling and the overall job of our coaching staff to recognize our personnel strengths and weaknesses is the problem with the team.

[gregastory]

I don't think we can blame the O-line. We run a ZBS for run plays. The idea of zone blocking is to have smaller, quicker linemen who can move. Is it their fault that we decide to try and pound the middle of a defense that is stacked up with much bigger players? I don't blame them necessarily. If we were the Cowboys who have a conventional huge line and couldn't get that yard, then it would absolutely be their fault. Our O-line actually pass blocks alright, we aren't super but adequate enough to throw for 350+ yards. Our line actually gets the edges of pitch plays pretty well. If our line couldn't pass protect at all or wasn't getting to the edge then we could blame the line. If you have players that do certain things well and you don't do those things then is it really their faults? If the Saints decided to run the ball 80% of the time and failed to score is their O-line then the problem on the team? I don't think it would be. Play-calling and the overall job of our coaching staff to recognize our personnel strengths and weaknesses is the problem with the team.

I would agree with you 100% if our ZBS was more effective.

I do agree with your last sentence though - I just think it's a problem rather than the problem

[mikeinsa]

Myers is a problem. We can blame it on the coaches but what we can not do is to tell the league not to schedule teams that have big nose tackles because we run a zbs and it is not fair to have us play them.

He is weak and needs to be replaced.

[wildroot]

Oh boy....I can see the writing on the wall....I guess next year we draft ANOTHER O-lineman in the first round and once again ignore the secondary.....until the 4th or 5th round with some borderline player

[Sprtsfanatic]

Dude you guys need to get off Turk's back... he had a bad punt. I can't believe you're including our PUNTER as a point of weakness on a team with so many others.

With that said, I think Okoye batted down two passes yesterday as well. I've actually been fairly impressed with his improvement...

The Oline is our biggest problem, followed closely by our secondary. We haven't started the same four guys back there throughout this entire season... I understand they need time to gain experience and learn to play together, but until that happens, I think they're up on the block just as high as the offensive line is.

No, I'll dog on any player I feel deserves it. AZ had 6 possesions in the first half and 4 of them started on our side of the field...that means we lost the field position battle due to weak punting. How you can deny that I dont know...and Im tired of people looking at his stats and think they are good enough...lets have a stat that shows how far the punt goes before it takes a 20 yard bounce and roll to increase your avg.

[gregastory]

No, I'll dog on any player I feel deserves it. AZ had 6 possesions in the first half and 4 of them started on our side of the field...that means we lost the field position battle due to weak punting. How you can deny that I dont know...and Im tired of people looking at his stats and think they are good enough...lets have a stat that shows how far the punt goes before it takes a 20 yard bounce and roll to increase your avg.

Houston Drive 1
4-5-HST 15 (13:51) M.Turk punts 49 yards to ARZ 36, Center-J.Dreessen, fair catch by S.Breaston.

Drive 2
4-6-HST 44(7:14) M.Turk punts 43 yards to ARZ 13, Center-J.Dreessen, downed by HST-A.Davis.

Drive 3 was a K.Brown field goal attempt from the ARZ 16, blocked

Drive 4
4-3-HST 46(9:37) M.Turk punts 38 yards to ARZ 16, Center-J.Dreessen. S.Breaston to ARZ 18 for 2 yards (A.Davis).

Drive 5
4-1-HST 27(4:31) M.Turk punts 41 yards to ARZ 32, Center-J.Dreessen. S.Breaston to ARZ 32 for no gain (A.Davis, J.Busing).

Drive 6
4-11-HST 19(1:24) M.Turk punts 29 yards to HST 48, Center-J.Dreessen, downed by HST-X.Adibi.

Arizona's average starting field position was their own 29 in the first half and the only time they started in Houston territory after a Turk punt was on their last drive.

Don't spew bull**** stats and hope I won't look them up to prove you wrong. Turk did his job yesterday.

[Sprtsfanatic]

hmm...good call....guess its just when we need him to really boot one that he seems to shank them all...or maybe im just pissed at seeing him shank more than his fair share...either way I still think we need a some youth and a better punter than turk back there...

[TheReaver]

Myers is a problem. We can blame it on the coaches but what we can not do is to tell the league not to schedule teams that have big nose tackles because we run a zbs and it is not fair to have us play them.

He is weak and needs to be replaced.

Your missing the point. Our line is good at some things, getting out on the edge and pass blocking. So if we are good at those things stop calling runs straight up the middle. Make big fatty NTs run to the sideline against our smaller guys, or throw the ball. Our 1 pass play we ran at the goalline worked just fine we just missed the pass. I don't expect Schaub to make EVERY throw, but I would guess if you gave him 4 shots from the 2 or 3 he could complete 1 of those passes.

[Bluedog68]

Actually on most of the plays, it wasn't the offensive line. Schaub was slow getting rid of the ball. He also had time to set and square himself to throw to Dreessen in the end zone. There were no one with in 10 yards of him and he rushed the throw. He had happy feet that day. Schaub gets a free pass on this board and I'm not going to let him slide on this game. It's mostly on him.

Yeah. Those 2 bad passes cost us the game. I applaude him for getting us back into the game, but he folded at crunch time.

[mikeinsa]

Your missing the point. Our line is good at some things, getting out on the edge and pass blocking. So if we are good at those things stop calling runs straight up the middle. Make big fatty NTs run to the sideline against our smaller guys, or throw the ball. Our 1 pass play we ran at the goalline worked just fine we just missed the pass. I don't expect Schaub to make EVERY throw, but I would guess if you gave him 4 shots from the 2 or 3 he could complete 1 of those passes.

I completely understand that you do the things that you do well and stay away from the things you do poorly until you do them well. What I also understand is that Myers handles himself well when he goes up against someone of similar size. He gets blown up when he goes against a good nose tackle in a 34 or 43. He is just physically not strong enough to hold the line. Dockett went right through him on that 4th down play and was almost at the 3 yard line with his paws on the running backs feet. Kind of hard to run that way.

Myers is very good in pass protection as a whole, very poor in the run game.

[Texan Naija]

Actually on most of the plays, it wasn't the offensive line. Schaub was slow getting rid of the ball. He also had time to set and square himself to throw to Dreessen in the end zone. There were no one with in 10 yards of him and he rushed the throw. He had happy feet that day. Schaub gets a free pass on this board and I'm not going to let him slide on this game. It's mostly on him.

Actually, I disagree on no one being around Schaub or Dressen. Leech was running right in front of Schaub with a Cardinal glued to his back before he saw Schaub, at which point he let Leech go and started to advance toward Matt directly in front of Dressen's position. It is why Schaub threw the ball so high, so that the Cardinal player couldn't get an interception or knock the ball while giving Dressen a chance.


Although, you are right, the game is primarily on Schaub's poor first half performance, but that one play, people should really take another look at. Highlights and reviews show that the pass wasn't as wide open as many call it. Really the only better play might have been to improvise and throw it to Leech.

[Rett]

Blaming a quarterback for making a bonehead play once in a while is okay, but you don't crucify him for it. If that was the way to go do you actually think Brett Favre, Ben R., Eli, Payton, Rivers or even the great God Brady would still be playing. Each and every one of them have made bonehead plays, thrown stupid interceptions and made poor decisions at times, but they, along with Schaub have proved that the good plays they make outweigh the bad.

[srstex]

If Schaubs good plays outweighed his bad, we would have a better record.

[TexansFan281]

If Schaubs good plays outweighed his bad, we would have a better record.

Good:10 TDs
Bad: 4 INTs

[srstex]

The problem Sunday is the same as last year, Kubiak trying to prove he's right when all the evidence proves the opposite. He said so in his presser that we can throw the ball well, so do it. A short pass is just as good a run play, and don't wait till your down by 3 scores to adjust. It is not fair to ask a punter to kick feild goals, it is fair to ask a dlineman to pass for 400 yards, and it is not fair to ask a ZBS front line to pound the ball in. It didn't work last year, it hasn't worked this year and it's not going to work next Sunday, CALL DIFFERENT PLAYS>

[A-B]

Dreessen is 6'5", he is taller and can leap higher than any of the defenders in the back. Schaub didn't give him any chance and he was the only one around the ball. 3"s lower and he could have came down with it. I would stick for any texans player at any time, but we also have to point out the problem areas. We blamed every one except Schaub. It's a fair game to pass the blame. This also doesn't make me a bad Texans fan. Every one here, I'm sure knows that I'm a homer.

He would have still came down out of bounds b/c he was positioned wrong in the endzone. He jumped straight up and came straight down out of bounds.

[South Texan]

From Wikipedia.com:
Zone blocking is a technique in American football that is a simple and effective scheme for creating lanes for running plays.

In a zone blocking scheme, fleet-footedness and athletic ability trump size as desirable qualities in offensive linemen. Coordination and technique matter more than muscle in implementing a successful scheme because defensive linemen are often double-teamed at the point of attack. Creating movement on the defensive line is more important than opening a specific hole in the defense.

Seems like the coaches asked the O-Line to become something they aren't when we were down on the goal line against both Arizona and Jacksonville.

[Texan Naija]

Shouldn't ZBS be MORE effective in the red zone?

Basically from my understanding, the offensive linemen attack a spot leave it open enough for the RB to make a decision on whether to take it and go. On goal line situations, it should be similar for the offensive linemen to move up a bit pick a spot or upcoming defensive player and go.

I mean aside from the five offensive line men, the goal line had no less then two TEs and FB extraordinaire Leech running up the intended hole to create a path. The problem with both attempts on Sunday is our interior got blown up so it was Leech and Brown on his back going directly against the defensive line plus linebackers. It is player performance not the scheme that cause us to lose in the endzone.

The linemen are supposed to be quick enough to get in the defenses faces, engage them past the original line of scrimmage and allow the running back enough room or space to break the plane. Simply put the offense starts the play but instead of rushing to the attack they let or were over matched by the athleticism of the defense. The set up was there but when you see a guard get thrown out of a pile and then try to push the RB forward, you have a problem.

[houstonsportsfan09]

Heard this on the radio so not my thoughts but I agree with. You know what's sad? Sad that the Cardinals could get a couple of inches to a yard to avoid a safety, yet we couldnt get < or = to a yard to get a game-tying touchdown.

[thunderkyss]

If frongs had wings and all that...

But if Chris Brown was the RB Matt tossed that underhanded shovel pass to.... do you think he would have got into the end-zone?

[houstonsportsfan09]

If frongs had wings and all that...

But if Chris Brown was the RB Matt tossed that underhanded shovel pass to.... do you think he would have got into the end-zone?

I dont think so, no.

[TexHorns]

I'm not all for blaming the O Line...they must have been doing something right for us to score 21 points....I blame the defensive line for lack of pressure...and one person in particular I wish they would bench for a long time until he shows more effort.....Okoye..thats right Okoye....I'm reviewing the game as I type this post and this guy is never going to be good. Why not bench this guy and let Coty and Frank Okam get the reps. I was one that was on Travis Johnsons side and no one can tell me that Okoye brings more to the table than he did....if you tell me I won't listen. Bench #91 until he grows up....and I hope thats the last time we draft any teenagers!

You do have a good point, if our offense is putting up 21/30 points a game we should be winning but mabye if we could run better it would keep their offense off the field.

[TexHorns]

Actually on most of the plays, it wasn't the offensive line. Schaub was slow getting rid of the ball. He also had time to set and square himself to throw to Dreessen in the end zone. There were no one with in 10 yards of him and he rushed the throw. He had happy feet that day. Schaub gets a free pass on this board and I'm not going to let him slide on this game. It's mostly on him.

You're right shaub had some bad plays in the cards game but I feel overall he has done pretty well this year. I have had my share of gripes about shaub in the past but this year I think his decision making has improved. The reason I brought up the oline subject is because it is consistantly manhandled in every game. I really think it hurting us from getting established early in the game because we can't run. As for Shaub having time, yeah he has time but we all know he can't move and it doesn't take much movement to get him out of sinc. He does well when he steps up in the pocket but if our interior gets pushed back and he has to make lateral movement he doesn't do well. JMO

[tejano70]

the oline gave shaub plenty of time to complete a pass in the last minutes of the game and as usual, he completes a pass to...... the cardinals and then he had plenty of time and throws it over dreessens head in the end zone. i love the texans, but most of our games in the last couple of years have been lost by fumbles or interceptions......by the qb's (shaub and rosebud) at least he went to the vikes. no, it is not the fault of one player but shaub had more opportunities to seal the deal

[LM_Baller]

the oline gave shaub plenty of time to complete a pass in the last minutes of the game and as usual, he completes a pass to...... the cardinals and then he had plenty of time and throws it over dreessens head in the end zone. i love the texans, but most of our games in the last couple of years have been lost by fumbles or interceptions......by the qb's (shaub and rosebud) at least he went to the vikes. no, it is not the fault of one player but shaub had more opportunities to seal the deal

This reminds me of the rabids saying we should dump Schaub because he threw the pic-six near the end of the game sunday. They decry this is evidence he doesn't have the arm strength or decision making ability to be an NFL quarterback. I would submit every one making this argument would gladly take Carson Palmer, or Ben Rothlisberger over Schaub, and both those QBs threw identical pic-sixes this weekend.

[Anti08]

The big problem is that we were saying this same thing last season and nothing was done to address it.

- In FA we could have signed Geoff Hangartner who has experience playing both C & G. He is currently starting C for the Bills.
- In the draft we had the opportunity to draft Unger in the 2nd round instead of Barwin. I like Barwin but a starting C would be more valuable right now.
- In the 3rd we drafted a C/G that could be our big mauling starter. However the coaches decided he should be able to play both positions for depth purposes. This has slowed his development and now he is inactive most games.

I wish we would make a trade to get Hangartner now.