Should the Texans dump the 1 yard hitch play to Andre?

[lamont]

You can always tell when the sports season is dry because dummies like myself reach for issues to keep me close to football. With that being said.
Should the Texas have a funeral for the 1 yard hitch play to Andre Johnson now that we have somewhat of a stable of running backs? On the professional level, have any of you ever seen this play work. I would go as far as saying I never seen this play net more than 5 yards and that's not including the Texans. I dont think it ever worked for the Texans in Kubiak or Capers era. I believe the hitch play is a waist of a down. The only place I have seen it work is on the collegiate and that's mainly a result of poor tackling. I could be wrong about it not netting more than 5 yards but if I am please direct me to the Team that has perfected it. I much rather see the Texans come out in the Veer or Wishbone formation before looking at them run that play one more time. Andre is good but he does not have mathias or hester speed to capitalize on that particular play



LETS GO TEXANS

[Zagen30]

I'd certainly call it a lot less than has been done the past 2 seasons, as we now have a QB capable of completing the long throws on a much more consistent basis. But I have seen it work, even on this team, as AJ is pretty strong and fast; it's sometimes good for picking up a first down.
I don't want it to be the first pass play in the playbook, but don't get rid of it entirely.

[Vinny]

The hitch pass has it's place in every offense...but we will no longer see the David Carr offense. All those short throws to the sidelines and to the backs will still be there...but won't be the staple of the offense anymore.

[HydrOshocK]

I agree that it should remain in the playbook because it's a good play to throw in when teams aren't expecting it, say on 2nd and 5 situations. It's effective at picking up a much needed first down when you have someone of AJ's size and speed that can pick up a lot of YAC. But it's not as effective when teams know you are going to run it all the time. I expect to see it maybe once or twice a game in the future, just to mix things up.

[lamont]

I agree that it should remain in the playbook because it's a good play to throw in when teams aren't expecting it, say on 2nd and 5 situations. It's effective at picking up a much needed first down when you have someone of AJ's size and speed that can pick up a lot of YAC. But it's not as effective when teams know you are going to run it all the time. I expect to see it maybe once or twice a game in the future, just to mix things up.

In theory that's how it suppose to go, but I have watched plenty games (thanks to direct tv sunday package) and this play never works. Even when theres a mismatch in coverage. What I have heard people mumble in the case of the Texans was basically the hitch play was there running play which is why I said since we have a rb stable now hopefully we could bury it or use it on a limited basis, like once a game maybe.

[Vinny]

I agree that it should remain in the playbook because it's a good play to throw in when teams aren't expecting it, say on 2nd and 5 situations. It's effective at picking up a much needed first down when you have someone of AJ's size and speed that can pick up a lot of YAC. But it's not as effective when teams know you are going to run it all the time. I expect to see it maybe once or twice a game in the future, just to mix things up.

In theory that's how it suppose to go, but I have watched plenty games (thanks to direct tv sunday package) and this play never works. Even when theres a mismatch in coverage. What I have heard people mumble in the case of the Texans was basically the hitch play was there running play which is why I said since we have a rb stable now hopefully we could bury it or use it on a limited basis, like once a game maybe.
It's not the RB...it's the QB. If the secondary doesn't have to worry about the mid-intermediate part of the field they can move a linebacker closer to Johnson, play the FS over the top and give the CB support on both ends. It's a great check down play on 1st down and the CB is playing off 10 yards....it's an easy 6 yards.

[HydrOshocK]

I agree that it should remain in the playbook because it's a good play to throw in when teams aren't expecting it, say on 2nd and 5 situations. It's effective at picking up a much needed first down when you have someone of AJ's size and speed that can pick up a lot of YAC. But it's not as effective when teams know you are going to run it all the time. I expect to see it maybe once or twice a game in the future, just to mix things up.

In theory that's how it suppose to go, but I have watched plenty games (thanks to direct tv sunday package) and this play never works. Even when theres a mismatch in coverage. What I have heard people mumble in the case of the Texans was basically the hitch play was there running play which is why I said since we have a rb stable now hopefully we could bury it or use it on a limited basis, like once a game maybe.

you are correct, it was our running play for far too long and now that we have a stud like Ahman Green, and a stable of quality back ups, we'll be able to pick up more first downs on the ground and won't have to rely on the hitch play as often. But I do remember on several occasions where AJ was able to pick up 5+ yrds on the play and that's when teams were expecting it. If teams aren't looking for it and AJ has a smaller CB playing 1 on 1 that play still has a lot of potential. But I agree, one or twice a game at most is all it should be run.

[The Pencil Neck]

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said you're reaching for topics.
The play should not be done away with. Every team uses it from time to time. It's good for when corners are giving a guy a lot of room or when you've got a playmaker you want to get the ball to when he's in one on one coverage. If you haven't seen this play get more than 5 yards, then you need to watch more or you're having selective memory. To totally remove the play would be an idiotic mistake.
However, I do hope the Texans use it less than they have in the past and that they get more yardage from it when they do run it. I think Palmer/Pendry over-called the play as a way to get the ball out of Carr's hands quickly so he wouldn't get sacked (and wouldn't have to read a D) and to get the ball into the hands of one of the only playmakers we had.

[infantrycak]

I have watched plenty games (thanks to direct tv sunday package) and this play never works.

Guess it depends on your definition of works. AJ has averaged about 7 yards on those plays. They shouldn't become a staple of the O nor used so often that they get covered more aggresively as Vinny describes but they are perfect play to throw in if the team has been hitting the middle of the field and passing plays down field and the CB's start playing 10 yards off AJ.

[Mr Tex]

Well, i don't think it's really suppose to net more than like 7 yds. So why would you scrap it as long as you're getting at least 3-4 out of it; AJ is at least good for that. The key thing with is that it needs to be called less, otherwise the element of surprise is lost. It can't be a staple of our offense like it sadly was last year, but it can still be used.

[lamont]

I have watched plenty games (thanks to direct tv sunday package) and this play never works.

Guess it depends on your definition of works. AJ has averaged about 7 yards on those plays. They shouldn't become a staple of the O nor used so often that they get covered more aggresively as Vinny describes but they are perfect play to throw in if the team has been hitting the middle of the field and passing plays down field and the CB's start playing 10 yards off AJ.

Can you lead me to this stat? Usually the ball is thrown to AJ, he joog by 3 quick moves and the CB wraps his legs and he falls over. I feel WR should be used vertically or reverses only. Plays like that are not only ineffective but I have seen wr's get smashed on it i.e. Reggie Bush lined up as a flank in the playoffs versus the Eagles. The play is dangerous. You are right though, don't band it totally but don't use it as your primary running game

[El Tejano]

I don't want to start more Dear Modern Day NFL stuff but Ernest Givens was awesome at the hitch pass. Sometimes that guy could take it 35 yards if one guy missed him.

[lamont]

I don't want to start more Dear Modern Day NFL stuff but Ernest Givens was awesome at the hitch pass. Sometimes that guy could take it 35 yards if one guy missed him.

One thing though, that was an era when your fastest CB probably ran a 5.5 (jokingly) . CB's back then were slower but hit harder now it seems as the totally opposite. Quick receivers with no pop.

[Mr Tex]

I have watched plenty games (thanks to direct tv sunday package) and this play never works.

Guess it depends on your definition of works. AJ has averaged about 7 yards on those plays. They shouldn't become a staple of the O nor used so often that they get covered more aggresively as Vinny describes but they are perfect play to throw in if the team has been hitting the middle of the field and passing plays down field and the CB's start playing 10 yards off AJ.

Can you lead me to this stat? Usually the ball is thrown to AJ, he joog by 3 quick moves and the CB wraps his legs and he falls over. I feel WR should be used vertically or reverses only. Plays like that are not only ineffective but I have seen wr's get smashed on it i.e. Reggie Bush lined up as a flank in the playoffs versus the Eagles. The play is dangerous. You are right though, don't band it totally but don't use it as your primary running game

The play your talking about with RB was not a hitch pass it was more like a swing pass, the ball is thrown quite differently (zip vs. lob); but yeah infantrycak is right, as long as AJ squares his shoulders & gets up the field in a hurry, he's good for at least 3-4 yards on it.

[Vinny]

I don't want to start more Dear Modern Day NFL stuff but Ernest Givens was awesome at the hitch pass. Sometimes that guy could take it 35 yards if one guy missed him.

One thing though, that was an era when your fastest CB probably ran a 5.5 (jokingly) . CB's back then were slower but hit harder now it seems as the totally opposite. Quick receivers with no pop.
humans haven't evolved much since the 80's...trust me on this one.

[CloakNNNDagger]

Specifically because of our change of QB, the 1 yard hitch will develop cobwebs this year. David Carr could not see the field.................not even at 1 yard.

[FirstTexansFan]

humans haven't evolved much since the 80's...trust me on this one.


You wouldn't believe how much I've evolved since the 80's :)

[outofhnd]

I don't want to start more Dear Modern Day NFL stuff but Ernest Givens was awesome at the hitch pass. Sometimes that guy could take it 35 yards if one guy missed him.
Sorry I have a sense of Humor, but alot of times when Andre did bust it we had a holding penalty or something else happen that called the play back. I say use it less and maybe use it on a first and goal play as well.

[sleepwalker]

This play can exploit man coverage, especially if the OLB is blitzing. It's a great play call in situations when you have a strong receiver like Andre.

When teams put 7 or 8 in the box to stop our run game, we could exploit that with the 1 yard hitch and hopefully Andre makes the first guy miss.

Or what if the cornerback is playing too far off Andre? A hitch would make sense to keep the corner honest. You could also set up the corner for the hitch and go deep.

I admit it's not exactly an exciting play, however I think it's essential for setting up other plays.

[Zagen30]

I don't want to start more Dear Modern Day NFL stuff but Ernest Givens was awesome at the hitch pass. Sometimes that guy could take it 35 yards if one guy missed him.

One thing though, that was an era when your fastest CB probably ran a 5.5 (jokingly) . CB's back then were slower but hit harder now it seems as the totally opposite. Quick receivers with no pop.
humans haven't evolved much since the 80's...trust me on this one.

Speak for yourself. You've never seen me. My brain can process information faster than a whole farm of computers. I make ILM's processing power look like a 486 [co]. I doubt you can say the same[:P]

[lamont]

This play can exploit man coverage, especially if the OLB is blitzing. It's a great play call in situations when you have a strong receiver like Andre.

When teams put 7 or 8 in the box to stop our run game, we could exploit that with the 1 yard hitch and hopefully Andre makes the first guy miss.

Or what if the cornerback is playing too far off Andre? A hitch would make sense to keep the corner honest. You could also set up the corner for the hitch and go deep.

I admit it's not exactly an exciting play, however I think it's essential for setting up other plays.


Remember we all had this hope and high optimism for the naked boot leg with car being mobile in all this should have worked, WRONG. Defenses will sniff out those specialy plays so quick. We are going to have to be more diverse in our play calling and that does not fall on the players, that's actually KUBIAK's job. But GOOD GOD I love the naked boot leg when it's ran at the right time.

[ReliantTexan]

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said you're reaching for topics.
The play should not be done away with. Every team uses it from time to time. It's good for when corners are giving a guy a lot of room or when you've got a playmaker you want to get the ball to when he's in one on one coverage. If you haven't seen this play get more than 5 yards, then you need to watch more or you're having selective memory. To totally remove the play would be an idiotic mistake.
However, I do hope the Texans use it less than they have in the past and that they get more yardage from it when they do run it. I think Palmer/Pendry over-called the play as a way to get the ball out of Carr's hands quickly so he wouldn't get sacked (and wouldn't have to read a D) and to get the ball into the hands of one of the only playmakers we had.
Shouldn't this play be for Mathis,he's better in space than Andre. and with his 4.26 speed I magine he could gain some yds.

[The Pencil Neck]

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said you're reaching for topics.
The play should not be done away with. Every team uses it from time to time. It's good for when corners are giving a guy a lot of room or when you've got a playmaker you want to get the ball to when he's in one on one coverage. If you haven't seen this play get more than 5 yards, then you need to watch more or you're having selective memory. To totally remove the play would be an idiotic mistake.
However, I do hope the Texans use it less than they have in the past and that they get more yardage from it when they do run it. I think Palmer/Pendry over-called the play as a way to get the ball out of Carr's hands quickly so he wouldn't get sacked (and wouldn't have to read a D) and to get the ball into the hands of one of the only playmakers we had.
Shouldn't this play be for Mathis,he's better in space than Andre. and with his 4.26 speed I magine he could gain some yds.
If Mathis could actually find his way onto the field, yeah. It would be a way to get the ball to him with an opportunity to bust something. But he's got to get healthy enough to actually play offense first.

[Nordic Vadar 1]

I'd certainly call it a lot less than has been done the past 2 seasons, as we now have a QB capable of completing the long throws on a much more consistent basis. But I have seen it work, even on this team, as AJ is pretty strong and fast; it's sometimes good for picking up a first down.
I don't want it to be the first pass play in the playbook, but don't get rid of it entirely.

[infantrycak]

Shouldn't this play be for Mathis,he's better in space than Andre. and with his 4.26 speed I magine he could gain some yds.

Faster doesn't always mean better in space but anyway, the theory for using AJ is he is a fast WR so CB's will sometimes give him a large cushion and he is a big WR so he can often shake the CB on him and get to the next level. Mathis is going down the first time someone touches him. Not saying it isn't worth running to Mathis if you saw a big cushion.

[lamont]

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said you're reaching for topics.
The play should not be done away with. Every team uses it from time to time. It's good for when corners are giving a guy a lot of room or when you've got a playmaker you want to get the ball to when he's in one on one coverage. If you haven't seen this play get more than 5 yards, then you need to watch more or you're having selective memory. To totally remove the play would be an idiotic mistake.
However, I do hope the Texans use it less than they have in the past and that they get more yardage from it when they do run it. I think Palmer/Pendry over-called the play as a way to get the ball out of Carr's hands quickly so he wouldn't get sacked (and wouldn't have to read a D) and to get the ball into the hands of one of the only playmakers we had.
Shouldn't this play be for Mathis,he's better in space than Andre. and with his 4.26 speed I magine he could gain some yds.
If Mathis could actually find his way onto the field, yeah. It would be a way to get the ball to him with an opportunity to bust something. But he's got to get healthy enough to actually play offense first.


The only purpose of Mathis in my opinion is punt returning and reverses

[infantrycak]

The only purpose of Mathis in my opinion is punt returning and reverses

That's kind of funny considering he is used for kick returns and not punt returns.

[Nordic Vadar 1]

The only purpose of Mathis in my opinion is punt returning and reverses

That's kind of funny considering he is used for kick returns and not punt returns.

Not funny. But representative of the general lack of basic knowledge.

[Grid]

the play stopped working cause people knew David sucked at finding the open man downfield.. and our running game was our greatest strength on offense.. that meant that everyone was playing close to the line and Johnson would get tackled before he had a chance to turn his body and get downfield.

I think the passing attack will be much improved under schaub, and because of that, I think the 1 yard hitch will be more effective.

As long as its used in moderation of course :P

[Zagen30]

the play stopped working cause people knew David sucked at finding the open man downfield.. and our running game was our greatest strength on offense.. that meant that everyone was playing close to the line and Johnson would get tackled before he had a chance to turn his body and get downfield.

I think the passing attack will be much improved under schaub, and because of that, I think the 1 yard hitch will be more effective.

As long as its used in moderation of course :P

Use the 1-yard hitch in moderation??? BRILLIANT!!!

[lamont]

The only purpose of Mathis in my opinion is punt returning and reverses

That's kind of funny considering he is used for kick returns and not punt returns.


In a nutshell I am basically saying special teams or some play designed for him on offense

[Battle-Red]

On the comparrison betweem AJ's and Mathis speed. Mathis official 40 time is 4.28 and AJ's is 4.30 i.e. their NFL profiles, granted 40 times are up for debate in most cases. AJ was 2nd in the NFL's fastest man in 05(04-05 season) to Allan Rossum and Mathis was 2nd in 06(05-06 season) to D'Angelo Hall. IMHO the difference in their percepted speed is the way they're geared and their size AJ at 6-3 and 230 and Mathis 5-11 and 191.

[Zagen30]

Isn't AJ's other key attribute his strength? I think that's why he's a better option for a 1-yard hitch than Mathis, because (assuming that the CB isn't playing close to the LOS since he knows that the Texans' QB can't throw deep) AJ not only has the speed to outrun a CB but can also overpower smaller CBs. I don't think Mathis is going to overpower very many DBs.

[Battle-Red]

Agree with Zagen30

[El Tejano]

I don't want to start more Dear Modern Day NFL stuff but Ernest Givens was awesome at the hitch pass. Sometimes that guy could take it 35 yards if one guy missed him.
Sorry I have a sense of Humor, but alot of times when Andre did bust it we had a holding penalty or something else happen that called the play back. I say use it less and maybe use it on a first and goal play as well.

I wasn't dogging your Dear Modern Day NFL man. I happened to love that thread. If you go and look I even posted in it a couple of times. I just didn't want to get people going off on me for bringing up Givins from back in the day.
On to the topic. I think we aren't just going to use it less but when we do it will actually suprise teams because we didn't do it enough during the season.

[DBheat]

Smart Football is a game of balace. We get teams to respect the deep threat, they start running cover 2 or 3, we take advantage of the cushion and run a hitch.
If we get a team to respect the run in a game, and they starting blizting LB's, we run slants or ins toward the center.
Honestly, a smart coach wont eliminate a play becuase it hasnt worked in the past, we should adapt to a situation, and make smart play calls.
If we can get our run game and deep game in check, I actually could see this play going for a good chunk of yardage on a consistent basis.

[Samer]

I think we should keep it, whats one more play in the arsenal...the more plays the better, mix it in once in a while...keep the opposing defenses on their heals guessing what play we will throw at them.