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  • #16
    Originally posted by rocknrandy View Post
    I'm sorry I think drew brees is a great QB. But this is crazy. everyone but N.O. prolly thinks this is crazy.

    I mean really??? He is officially a cap casualty. How are they going to be able to have depth.

    Good bye Vilma, Jenkins, and Thomas

    They are going to need to shed some $$$ for cap relief come next year.

    Stupid that drew brees put them in that position.

    He cashed in. Don't blame him. He capitalized and got Benson in a bad spot. Put him in a corner. I get it, he is financially set his family is set whether he plays another down or not.

    But come on.

    They won't even be able to cut him for his high annual salary because he is owed 60M Gauranteed.
    He is guaranteed a rosterspot for 3 of the 5 years atleast, cutting him after 3 has a huge cap hit, after year 4 not so much as his 5th year salary is not GTD and probably huge
    sigpic

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    • #17
      Originally posted by peytonmanning18 View Post
      Whether he gets $40 mill in one year is not that relevant to the cap hit because the length of the contract coupled with the average yearly guaranteed money is the number that goes against the cap. So if he got 5 years at 20 mill then the cap hit is 20 mill, not 40 mill in year one and then on.
      I'm not too savy on the cap and all but wouldn't 20m for one player hurt your ballclub? Maybe not now but say in a year or so I would think it's gotta catch up to a team. I don't know so thats why I'm throwing it out there... Cap for dummies plz

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      • #18
        Originally posted by mmtex63 View Post
        I'm not too savy on the cap and all but wouldn't 20m for one player hurt your ballclub? Maybe not now but say in a year or so I would think it's gotta catch up to a team. I don't know so thats why I'm throwing it out there... Cap for dummies plz
        See link to Spotrac in my post above for the full details year by year. Brees will represent less then a sixth of the anticipated cap in any season. After Brees it leaves over 100 million to distribute to 53 guys. Every team will have at least 4-6 starters making under 500,000 along with all the backups. That leaves about 5 million per average for your starters per year. As long as a team does not overpay players who are not the face of their franchise capable of carrying the team they should be fine.

        Detroit and Buffalo are the teams that are in big trouble because they are paying 15-20 mill per year for positional players. If any player wants more then 8 mill per year and they are not a quarterback it does not make cap sense IMO, next man up. Can not say next man up with Brees.

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        • #19
          If I'm not mistaken that have a 3 day window to let Brees go right after the SB in Feb 2013 and not take a hit, but after that the cap takes the hit.
          Peace is a myth.

          2012 HTMB Superbowl Champion

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          • #20
            Originally posted by rocknrandy View Post
            I'm sorry I think drew brees is a great QB. But this is crazy. everyone but N.O. prolly thinks this is crazy.

            I mean really??? He is officially a cap casualty. How are they going to be able to have depth.

            Good bye Vilma, Jenkins, and Thomas

            They are going to need to shed some $$$ for cap relief come next year.

            Stupid that drew brees put them in that position.

            He cashed in. Don't blame him. He capitalized and got Benson in a bad spot. Put him in a corner. I get it, he is financially set his family is set whether he plays another down or not.

            But come on.

            They won't even be able to cut him for his high annual salary because he is owed 60M Gauranteed.
            He is one of the top 3 quarterbacks in the NFL. As time goes by, salaries will go up and this is just the next step in the process. When you have an elite QB you have to do whatever you can to keep him. The Saints are a hell of a lot closer to winning a Super Bowl with Drew Brees, even if he eats up a lot of cap space, than they would be without him. Elite quarterbacks don't grow on trees.
            ColtsStrong Parade

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            • #21
              Looks like the Saints are following the Colts example. Build your entire team around one really great player and hope they never miss a game. It's a strategy that's already got them a Lombardi trophy, but we all know what happens if that player is injured and sitting on the bench.

              2-14.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Deep Steel Blue View Post
                Looks like the Saints are following the Colts example. Build your entire team around one really great player and hope they never miss a game. It's a strategy that's already got them a Lombardi trophy, but we all know what happens if that player is injured and sitting on the bench.

                2-14.

                Yeah they probably should have let him walk and started over with Chase Daniel. They'd be in a much better position to win the Super Bowl with Daniel at QB.
                ColtsStrong Parade

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by peytonmanning18 View Post
                  Yeah they probably should have let him walk and started over with Chase Daniel. They'd be in a much better position to win the Super Bowl with Daniel at QB.
                  Uh, good luck trying sarcasm on this board, because there are always a few that take everything literally.
                  Last edited by WaldovonPutz; 07-15-2012, 09:33 PM.
                  This year is last year's next year!!!

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                  • #24
                    Let me try this out:

                    37M Signing Bonus (Cap hit @ $7.4M/Yr spread over 5 years)

                    2013 3M Salary Cap Hit $10.4M (3M+ 7.4M) Cash (3M + 37M SB) $40M

                    2014 10M Salary Cap Hit 17.4M (10M + 7.4M) Cash $10M

                    2015 11M Salary Cap Hit 18.4M (11M + 7.4M) Cash $11M

                    2016 19M Salary Cap Hit 26.4M (19M + 7.4M) Cash $19M

                    2017 20M Salary Cap Hit 27.4M (20M + 7.4M) Cash $20M
                    Last edited by Marshall; 07-16-2012, 04:24 PM.
                    https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M...0&h=300Adopter of #98 D. J. Reader

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                    • #25
                      Here's what a Drew Brees extension can look like and what concerns the Saints
                      June 2, 2016|Yahoo Sports
                      When Peyton Manning signed the final contract of his career with the Denver Broncos a little more than four years ago, the clock began to tick on Denver's succession process. The Broncos had four years to groom a replacement for one of the greatest quarterbacks in NFL history. That plan, built around Brock Osweiler, failed when the Houston Texans plucked away Manning's understudy in free agency.

                      Less than three months after that failure in Denver, the New Orleans Saints are heading into a similar long-term quandary, staring at a significant commitment to an aging, elite quarterback, while also measuring how to survive his inevitable departure. The Saints are weighing two sizeable issues regarding their quarterback spot, two league sources told Yahoo Sports: the amount of guaranteed money that will be necessary to get a contract extension done with Drew Brees, and finding and properly grooming the player who will eventually replace him.

                      Neither task appears simple at the moment.

                      It begins with Brees' contract talks, which multiple sources said are at a standstill as the Saints head toward the opening of mandatory minicamp on June 14. Brees is in the final year of a five-year, $100 million deal. A swelling market for middle-tier starting quarterbacks drove up the price on his extension. Brees’ agent, Tom Condon, secured an $18 million per season extension for Philadelphia Eagles starter Sam Bradford, and last offseason inked a $21 million per year extension for Eli Manning (including $65 million in guaranteed money).

                      Jimmy Sexton, Condon's partner at CAA, also secured a $20.8 million per season extension and $65 million guaranteed for the San Diego Chargers' Philip Rivers last offseason. And with the salary cap rising this offseason, that translates into a harder bargain driven for Brees, even at age 37.

                      Given those numbers, two league sources pegged a Brees extension as landing somewhere in the neighborhood of four years and $95 million to $100 million, with guaranteed money likely to exceed $65 million. For now, one league source said the asking price on the extension has played a part in the talks failing to progress. But that lack of movement was also characterized in multiple ways with varying levels of optimism. Among the factors believed to be playing a part …
                      • The upcoming season's $30 million cap charge for Brees is no longer a pressure point for the Saints. The franchise completed the heavy lifting for this offseason and can carry Brees' cap number without being forced to do an extension simply for space. Cornerback Josh Norman's unexpected availability in free agency stimulated talks between New Orleans and Condon, but the need to get something done quickly dissipated when Norman signed with the Washington Redskins.

                      • Being able to carry Brees' cap charge has given New Orleans the flexibility of seeing how he performs in 2016. That mitigates some risk of doing an extension now and then potentially having Brees suffer a drop-off in play this coming season. While making Brees wait for a new deal also carries risk of him hitting free agency, the Saints know that Brees loves New Orleans and wants to finish his career with the Saints, and that Condon represented Peyton Manning when Manning played through the entirety of two contracts with the Indianapolis Colts. When each of those deals expired for Manning, Condon and the Colts got another new contract done. The Saints believe they could accomplish the same thing with Condon and Brees if it becomes necessary. While Brees has said he doesn't want to have negotiations on a new deal overlap into next season, the reality is Saints general manager Mickey Loomis and Condon are capable of getting an extension done swiftly. Loomis and Condon have already hammered out two previous contracts for Brees. They have a groundwork and relationship to get another completed quickly.
                      One source familiar with the Saints' line of thinking said there is a wild card in play: guaranteed money.

                      There is a looming possibility that Brees could have an expeditious decline in play, potentially as soon as next season. If the Saints lock themselves into guaranteed money comparable (or exceeding) the $65 million given to Rivers or Eli Manning last year, cap economics suggest it's a minimum three-year commitment. Should Brees experience a sudden decline similar to the one experienced by Peyton Manning with the Broncos, he would essentially be uncuttable through the 2018 season and his 40th birthday.

                      This has given the Saints plenty to think about – and at least some additional motivation to let Brees play out his contract through next season. Should he put up another banner year and show no signs of slowing down, it gives the Saints reason to make another commitment. It would also give New Orleans another season to eye options for Brees' potential successor.

                      Garrett Grayson was drafted in the third round in 2015 to potentially be that player. But heading into Year 2, the Saints still don't know whether he is capable of rising to that expectation. Part of the problem could be the quarterback room that Grayson is sitting in. Grayson needs to master the New Orleans offense in two ways: through work in the classroom and reps on the field, a league source said. But that has been harder than it sounds.

                      Why? Grayson is sitting in a classroom with Brees and backup Luke McCown, two players whose mastery of the offense has put quarterback meetings into a constant mode of progression. While Grayson is still learning many of the basic ins and outs of the offense, Brees and McCown are operating at an advanced pace in meetings. As a result, the Saints coaching staff is facing a situation where it has become necessary for quarterbacks coach Joe Lombardi to spend additional time with Grayson 1-on-1 in hopes of teaching him basics that Brees and McCown have long mastered.

                      It remains to be seen how Grayson responds to that environment, but the Saints have been open to exploring other options. The coaching and personnel staff kicked the tires on a few quarterbacks in the 2016 NFL draft, and were believed to be open to taking one if the opportunity presented itself.

                      It ultimately never did. That has left the Saints where they are now, looking for the right contractual fit with Brees and also considering life beyond him. Neither looks simple at the moment, but both are imperative to the long-term picture.
                      Has a $30M cap number in 2016.
                      Last edited by H2O4me; 2 weeks ago.

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                      • #26
                        That was a well thought out article by Charles.
                        TexansCap.com

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                        • #27
                          Yes it was. Good read. What he didn't get into though is that by waiting, Brees gets one year older and that pushes up the potential for regression in the next contract if they do wait a year before getting one done. We've been on this QB road where you can't know between your options which option is the best. It has to play out, so by the time you know.....it's already in the books. So you almost have just the extremes for options, it's crazy and fans can't stand it.

                          It looks like Brees and Brady are both thinking they'll make it at least to 40. So, the Saints don't have any luxury option, it's bite the first bullet or bite the last bullet or see him regress this year. Any way you cut it's not good. Garrett's young enough though, they have time there. It's not a rush, necessarily. Even 4-5 years from now is ok for transitioning him in, even though that's probably longer than optimal.
                          Last edited by bayoudreamn; 06-06-2016, 09:46 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Do the Saints want to keep Drew Brees or not?
                            Brees is in the last year of his contract with the Saints, and the two sides aren't even talking about a new deal.

                            Contract talks between Drew Brees and the Saints aren't going anywhere. Saints VP and GM Mickey Loomis said Wednesday that Brees and the team "have not made any progress" on a contract extension. That's probably because they haven't even talked about it in three months. Brees has a stunning $30 million cap hit this season, which also happens to be the last year of his deal.

                            Brees is 37. The Saints need to make this happen so they can quickly try and fill in a team around him and make another run at the playoffs before Brees' window closes. They could tag him next year, but because he's already been tagged twice that would cost more than $43 million for a one-year deal.

                            If they don't want to recommit to the Brees, it'll be the best quarterback to hit free agency since the Colts cut Peyton Manning in 2012. Teams will be tripping over themselves to court him in March.

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                            • #29
                              The most dangerous mind in the NFL: How Drew Brees continues to defy the odds

                              The prolific Saints QB shows no signs of slowing down entering his 17th NFL season

                              Pete Prisco
                              METAIRIE, La. -- Drew Brees isn't supposed to be doing what he's doing. He just isn't.

                              At barely 6-feet tall -- some of his New Orleans Saints teammates actually insist he's that tall when he's wearing shoes -- with a surgically repaired throwing shoulder in an arm that isn't going to knock receivers over, Brees hardly looks like the prototypical NFL quarterback. He can barely see over the line sometimes, and many times he is forced to crane his neck for any little window to see the defense.

                              "He looks out underneath his facemask," Saints running back Mark Ingram said. "That's so he can see."

                              The primary reason it all works, though, has nothing to do with the physical tools that you or I can see. It has to do with what you can't.

                              It's all inside his head.

                              Peyton Manning used to be the standard-bearer for quarterback smarts. He used to own the most-dangerous weapon in all of football: His mind.

                              Brees has now taken that over. His mind is the greatest weapon in football.

                              Doesn't it have to be, considering his physical stature?

                              In an era with big, strong-armed passers, guys who stand tall in the pocket, Brees has bucked the trend, becoming one of the greatest passers in NFL history in large part because of his ability to win with his head.

                              "Everybody has limitations, and everybody knows what their strengths are," Brees said last week during a break in training camp. "I feel like my preparation and knowing as much as I can about playing the concepts, the personnel and defense is what is going to allow me to be successful. Having a plan and knowing how to execute that plan is what equates to success. I have to rely on that. That has to be my greatest strength. What I may lack in some areas, that has to make up for it."

                              Brees has a sixth sense for finding the open receiver.

                              "Take away a sense, and the other senses have to be heightened," he said. "It's like that. I know where guys are going to be. I know where my outlet is. I develop trust and confidence in my guys that even if certain things are taken away, I have that ability to know where they are gong to be and make it work."

                              If the 38-year-old Brees plays three more seasons, he will almost certainly be the NFL all-time leader in yards, touchdown passes and attempts. He needs 5,830 yards to pass Peyton Manning atop the yards list. Considering Brees has five of the nine 5,000-yard passing seasons in league history, that should happen next year.
                              .

                              Brees credits his success on the field to visualization off it. CBSSports original illustration/Mike Meredith

                              Manning also is tops in touchdown passes with 539, while Brees has 465. If he plays three more seasons, he will need to average 25 a season to get there. Brett Favre has 1,411 more pass attempts than Brees, so that will take three full seasons to break. Brees is also first all-time in completion percentage at 66.6-percent, and seventh in passer rating at 96.3.

                              He also has the one Super Bowl victory to go with the numbers to help validate all those numbers -- keeping him away from the vultures that would prey on him just being a stats guy.

                              When the numbers were mentioned to Brees, he almost had an aw-shucks reaction to being on the verge of becoming the best passer of all time -- at least in terms of raw data.

                              "It's not my No. 1 priority, but when you look back on a career it's significant," he said. "I remember my rookie year in San Diego. My first preseason game was at Miami. Walking into Joe Robbie Stadium, I remember looking up and there was Dan Marino in the ring of honor. It listed all his stats. He had 400-plus touchdowns and 60,000 yards (61,361). I remember thinking how could you ever get close to that number in a career. All that stuff was untouchable. It wasn't even in my mind. It was my first preseason game. I was just hoping to make it out of that game without the coaches yelling at me. To think I am going into my 17th season and within striking distance, I don't know."

                              He stops for a second.

                              "I try not to reflect too much, but rather focus on what's in front of me," he said. "I just feel blessed to play the game as long as I have."

                              The drive to be great

                              Coming out of Purdue, there were questions about his size and his arm strength. Yet the San Diego Chargers took him in the second round of the 2001 NFL Draft. After playing little as a rookie, he started 58 games in four seasons, flashing his passing acumen in his final two seasons. But in the season finale in 2005, Brees suffered a torn labrum in his right, throwing arm.

                              Some speculated he might never be the same.

                              They were right. He got better. Much better.

                              The Saints signed him as a free agent when the Chargers made Philip Rivers their franchise quarterback. The Saints took a chance even as Brees was coming back from the injury.
                              "I HATE WHEN PEOPLE TRY AND SAY HE'S A SYSTEM QUARTERBACK. HE IS THE SYSTEM." -- Zach Strief on Drew Brees
                              In 12 seasons, all he's done is win a Super Bowl for the city and become the face of the franchise and a darling of New Orleans fans. The determination to come back from that injury -- his arm actually got stronger -- shouldn't come as a surprise now.

                              His drive and competitiveness are legendary. Teammates and coaches marvel at it.

                              "He has a level of mental intensity that normal guys can't match," Saints right tackle Zach Strief said. "Most people can't maintain that competitive drive on a day-to-day basis, but that's what makes him great."

                              That drive shows up everywhere. Whether it's on the practice field, the post-practice quarterback competitions, the locker-room ping-pong games or playing darts with his wife, Brees hates to lose.

                              "I go right for that bulls-eye," he said.

                              The Saints put a ping-pong table in their locker room last year. That led to friendly games. Brees hadn't played the game in a while, so Strief beat him four straight times.
                              .

                              The numbers scream that Brees belongs in the conversation with Brady and Rodgers. USATSI

                              "He'd throw the paddle down and walk away," Strief said. "He hated it."

                              So what did Brees do?

                              He practiced and worked to beat Strief, who now says he hasn't defeated Brees in their last eight or nine games. Isn't there something a little odd in Brees taking time out from work to win a seemingly meaningless ping-pong game? It could be, but that's him.

                              "Yes, I practiced, but more than that I tried to figure out why he was beating me," Brees said. "There was something he was doing that I was not able to combat. The spin on his serve was messing me up. I came up with a technique for that. If I didn't find a way to answer that, he was going to beat my butt and I can't stand it."

                              When Brees puts his mind to something, he's tough to beat. He uses the same kind of focus to adapt and succeed on the football field.

                              "I visualized what I had to do," he said. "I read something where this guy was a Vietnam POW. And the way he got through being imprisoned that whole time was to visualize playing on his home golf course. He had never broken 92 on that golf course. He just sat there and visually played it. That's how he made it through the day. Sure enough, after being released, he goes back home and shoots 82. He visualized it. He saw it. I think that's what separates some of the great athletes from others. They put themselves in situations and they visualize what they are going to do to have success. They visualize the shot, the throw, the catch, how the defense is going to react. Then when you go out and do it, it's as if it already happened. I do that on the football field, but I also did it thinking about beating him (Strief)."

                              That mind has to be sharp, as does the attention to detail. Since he's short, Brees has a tough time seeing over the line. Watch any Saints game and you will see him tilting his head back to get a better look at what's in front of him. It's become a tic of his on some plays when he doesn't even need to do so.

                              The taller quarterbacks can see over the line. Brees has to see through windows -- or not at all. That's right. He said he throws some of his passes blindly, just because he knows where the receivers are going to be

                              "He's thrown 100s of passes where he didn't see the receiver," Strief said. "That's because of his attention to detail. Repping the plays over and over again, plus all the studying he does."

                              "The bottom line, I am 6-feet tall and everybody in front of me is 6-4," Brees said. "It's impossible to see over those guys. You have to create throwing windows. There is stuff where it gets wide open in front of me and I will jump. I will drop back, jump, just to confirm what I think is there, and the second my foot hits the ground, I stride and I am throwing, even if I know what's there. I wonder why even jumped."

                              Practice makes perfect

                              Sitting inside the Saints practice facility, sipping a smoothie made especially for him, Brees used the garage doors on the opposite side of the structure to explain his technique for seeing down field. There were three big garage doors on the wall opposite us, one on each end and one in the middle.

                              "If we opened up all the garage doors, they could be similar to throwing lanes and everything between them (the walls) is linemen and stuff you can't see," Brees said. "If you drive a car behind it, and I can gauge the speed of it, I will be able to anticipate and hit that car as it goes past the garage door. That's playing quarterback in the NFL."

                              It helps that he's maniacal about the preparation, and every detail matters. Strief said Brees has put his foot exactly on the same line for stretching in his years with the Saints. He will go to the line and go exactly on it, never past, never short, while others go past it and short of it.

                              "Some people could interpret that as being OCD," Strief said. "For him, the minute he lets go of a level of consistency, even a little one, it's easy to snow ball. If the little things don't matter, the next thing let go will matter a little more and a little more. That's why he does what he does. It's all detail. He's mentally conditioned himself to make it all matter."

                              Saints coach Sean Payton is one of the best offensive minds in the league, and his relationship with Brees makes the offense go. But it wouldn't come close to working without Brees.

                              "He's a coach on the field," Ingram said. "He's in install meetings. He's in game-plan meetings. He watches so much tape. He knows what we're all doing."

                              "I hate when people try and say he's a system quarterback," Strief said. "He is the system."

                              A window closing?

                              As Brees readies for the 2017 season, there is the potential for this to be his last with the Saints. He is entering the final year of his deal, and there has been no sign of him slowing down. He had another 5000-yard passing season last year.

                              Even so, at his age there are questions as to whether he will be back, but not in his mind.

                              "I am not worried about it," Brees said. "Things will work out how they're supposed to. I believe I am going to be here for a long time and continue to play football for a long time. I am at peace without whatever happens. My expectation level is that I will finish my career here."

                              Tom Brady turned 40 last week, and Brees is a few years behind. So the natural question is how much longer will he play?

                              "When I first got into the league, I thought if I could just become a starter," Brees said "Then it was if could just make it to double-digits, I'd be happy. Then I make it year 10. I am 32, so let's play until I am 35. Then I get to 35, and it's like I might make it to 40. If I make it 40, what's the next objective?"

                              How about getting the due he deserves? He's guilty of bad timing. He's played in the wrong generation to get the accolades he truly deserves. Brady has the five rings. Peyton Manning was the face of the NFL and Aaron Rodgers is considered by some to be the best in the league.

                              None of those QBs have the numbers that Brees has, which is why he should be getting more attention for what he's accomplished.

                              Brees has those five seasons of at least 5,000 passing yards. Brady and Manning have one and Rodgers doesn't have any. Brees has six of the top-17 passing seasons of all time. He also has two of the top-10 seasons in passing touchdowns, and three in the top 13. Manning has two, Brady and Rodgers one each. Brees also has seven seasons averaging 300 yards or more passing in a season. Brady has three and Manning and Rodgers have one each.

                              Yet, he's not usually mentioned in the same group. Maybe that, too, helps drive the small quarterback with the big mind.

                              "I've always had a chip on my shoulder from when I was a kid, especially when I got to high school," Brees said. "I was always told what I couldn't do. There's a little satisfaction proving people wrong."

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