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  • #16
    It's interesting that our two biggest needs seem to come in areas generally considered weakest in this years draft.

    I'd personally just go with best available since I don't think our perceived areas of weakness are that bad.

    QB

    1. Tom Savage
    2. Brandon Weedon

    Not as bad as the national press would have you believe. Either could be as good as Dak was last year, but they won't get credit until they do it.

    Injuries happen and veteran Backups abound, especially after final roster cuts. I'm sure Keenum and Yates might be available in an emergency if they don't make their current team rosters.

    OL
    Tackles
    1. Duane Brown
    2. Chris Clark
    3. Kendall Lamb
    4. Laurence Gibson (futures - Is his future now?)
    5. Dave Quessenberry (slim chance to make roster)
    6. Derek Newton (probably out/retired)
    Guards
    1. Jeff Allen
    2. Xavier Sua'-Filo
    3. Josh Walker
    4. Chad Slade
    Centers
    1. Greg Mancz
    2. Nick Martin
    3. Tony Bergstrom (Released)

    I expect both Mancz and Martin to be starters at either center or guard, Sua'-Filo at the other guard and Duane Brown holding down LT. Kendall might be ready to step up at the other Tackle position with Newton likely gone or diminished by the devastating injuries.

    While improvement is nice, I don't see it as a roadblock if we don't draft one of the linemen in this draft.

    I'd really rather focus on CB or S since this is supposedly a strength along with WR in this draft.

    To be perfectly honest, TJ Watt excited me more than anyone else in the draft outside of the top ten.

    A late round sleeper pick is Vanderdoss DT out of UCLA as a backup for DJ Reader.
    Last edited by Marshall; 2 weeks ago. Reason: New News
    https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M...0&h=300Adopter of #98 D. J. Reader

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    • #17
      Originally posted by AngryNateFTW View Post
      It depends and I'm glad you made this post.

      This draft is going to go 1 of 2 ways,

      1. We draft a QB in the 1st round and he takes over for Savage at some point this season or next season.

      2. We go OL in the first round, build the offense to protect Savage and officially begin the Savage Era. (We take a possible mid round or late round pick at QB to be 3rd string.)

      I like what Savage could do with more live reps but with that said, I want another good QB on this roster.

      What I want,

      1. Mahomes
      2. OL
      3. OL
      4. BPA of need

      What I expect to happen,

      1. OL
      2. Webb from Cal
      What you expect is what I hope for, cos Savage needs all the protection in the pocket he can get. But I hope for N. Peterman as much or more than Mahomes.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Marshall View Post
        It's interesting that our two biggest needs seem to come in areas generally considered weakest in this years draft.

        I'd personally just go with best available since I don't think our perceived areas of weakness are that bad.

        QB

        1. Tom Savage
        2. Brandon Weedon

        Not as bad as the national press would have you believe. Either could be as good as Dak was last year, but they won't get credit until they do it.

        Injuries happen and veteran Backups abound, especially after final roster cuts. I'm sure Keenum and Yates might be available in an emergency if they don't make their current team rosters.

        OL
        Tackles
        1. Duane Brown
        2. Chris Clark
        3. Kendall Lamb
        4. Laurence Gibson (futures - Is his future now?)
        5. Dave Quessenberry (slim chance to make roster)
        6. Derek Newton (probably out/retired)
        Guards
        1. Jeff Allen
        2. Xavier Sua'-Filo
        3. Josh Walker
        4. Chad Slade
        Centers
        1. Greg Mancz
        2. Nick Martin
        3. Tony Bergstrom

        I expect both Mancz and Martin to be starters at either center or guard, Sua'-Filo at the other guard and Duane Brown holding down LT. Kendall might be ready to step up at the other Tackle position with Newton likely gone or diminished by the devastating injuries.

        While improvement is nice, I don't see it as a roadblock if we don't draft one of the linemen in this draft.

        I'd really rather focus on CB or S since this is supposedly a strength along with WR in this draft.

        To be perfectly honest, TJ Watt excited me more than anyone else in the draft outside of the top ten.

        A late round sleeper pick is Vanderdoss DT out of UCLA as a backup for DJ Reader.
        Excellent post Marshall. The 2 areas that most would say are the teams biggest need areas just happen to be a down year talent wise in the draft. The team could focus on the strength of the draft to shore up other areas of need:

        RB
        TE
        LB
        CB
        FS
        SS

        The Texans really need a RB that commands the attention of defenses. Miller is fine, between the 20's but he's just not big enough to be the answer inside the zone. There are 3 RB's who could answer this need and would be available at different points in the draft: Foreman (Texas), Perine (Oklahoma) and Hill (Wyoming). All 3 have had big college seasons but Perine and Hill are the more complete backs and Foreman is Lil' Earl in my book...only faster. Hands and his blocking need a lot of work.

        I truly think the Texans could roll by taking TE, Jake Butt and placing him on IR this season. His current injury status could make this easy to hide the best TE in the draft on IR versus using a roster spot while he completes his rehab. Also, Griffin has been signed to keep the TE slots flush for 2017. Butt is the most complete TE in this class and would be a tremendous asset in 2018 seeing that he'd have a year to learn the TE position in this offensive scheme.

        I'm with you....I'd use RD1-25 on OLB, TJ Watt if he's still on the board. Count me as one fan who'd like to see Clowney remain the bookend DE to Watt. Mercilus and Watt 2.0 on the outside would be extremely nice. A couple of really nice picks on defense could certainly cement this defense' status as the best in the NFL. If another team nabs Watt, I'd immediately re-focus my attention on Bowser (Houston) who I think could be equally as effective as Watt on the outside.

        This draft is rich at CB, FS and SS. I'd take 1 of each butt hat leaves 4 picks and after I use 1 each on an OLB, RB and TE...that leaves only 1 pick to utilize towards either OL or QB. I believe depth or potential RT starter could far outweigh getting a QB in 2017, since everyone of these QB's should realistically sit for a season or more while re-learning the position at the NFL level. Sure you could throw them to wolves and let them work it out with OJT...but that's going to make Osweiler look like the second coming of Aaron Rodgers for a season or two.

        Like I mentioned before, find a way to gain a couple of extra picks this season and this could be a really special draft for the team.
        Last edited by Optimistic; 2 weeks ago.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Optimistic View Post

          Excellent post Marshall. The 2 areas that most would say are the teams biggest need areas just happen to be a down year talent wise in the draft. The team could focus on the strength of the draft to shore up other areas of need:

          RB
          TE
          LB
          CB
          FS
          SS

          The Texans really need a RB that commands the attention of defenses. Miller is fine, between the 20's but he's just not big enough to be the answer inside the zone. There are 3 RB's who could answer this need and would be available at different points in the draft: Foreman (Texas), Perine (Oklahoma) and Hill (Wyoming). All 3 have had big college seasons but Perine and Hill are the more complete backs and Foreman is Lil' Earl in my book...only faster. Hands and his blocking need a lot of work.

          I truly think the Texans could roll by taking TE, Jake Butt and placing him on IR this season. His current injury status could make this easy to hide the best TE in the draft on IR versus using a roster spot while he completes his rehab. Also, Griffin has been signed to keep the TE slots flush for 2017. Butt is the most complete TE in this class and would be a tremendous asset in 2018 seeing that he'd have a year to learn the TE position in this offensive scheme.

          I'm with you....I'd use RD1-25 on OLB, TJ Watt if he's still on the board. Count me as one fan who'd like to see Clowney remain the bookend DE to Watt. Mercilus and Watt 2.0 on the outside would be extremely nice. A couple of really nice picks on defense could certainly cement this defense' status as the best in the NFL. If another team nabs Watt, I'd immediately re-focus my attention on Bowser (Houston) who I think could be equally as effective as Watt on the outside.

          This draft is rich at CB, FS and SS. I'd take 1 of each butt hat leaves 4 picks and after I use 1 each on an OLB, RB and TE...that leaves only 1 pick to utilize towards either OL or QB. I believe depth or potential RT starter could far outweigh getting a QB in 2017, since everyone of these QB's should realistically sit for a season or more while re-learning the position at the NFL level. Sure you could throw them to wolves and let them work it out with OJT...but that's going to make Osweiler look like the second coming of Aaron Rodgers for a season or two.

          Like I mentioned before, find a way to gain a couple of extra picks this season and this could be a really special draft for the team.
          I love that thinking.

          The problem I have is that I want three players expected to go in the top of the second round (TJ Watt OLB, {Cam Robinson OT/Garrett Bolles} and Patrick Maholmes II QB) and realistically we will only get one.

          Do you think Jake will fall to a late three/top four pick that we can pick up with our third to stash or would you trade down with the second to pick up a higher third and an extra pick?
          https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.M...0&h=300Adopter of #98 D. J. Reader

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Marshall View Post

            I love that thinking.

            The problem I have is that I want three players expected to go in the top of the second round (TJ Watt OLB, {Cam Robinson OT/Garrett Bolles} and Patrick Maholmes II QB) and realistically we will only get one.

            Do you think Jake will fall to a late three/top four pick that we can pick up with our third to stash or would you trade down with the second to pick up a higher third and an extra pick?
            Watt is the only one you listed that is projected to have a chance of seeing the 2nd round. And multiple mocks have him going to GB in the 1st. Mahomes is listed as a top 25, mainly showing him coming here, Saints and 1-2 others. Robinson and Bolles are both listed as gone in picks 10-20. I have seen Mitchell mocked to us at 25 more than expected lately. Seeing teams like the Jets would probably go after him. But, if he is around at 25 and so is Mahomes I'm not sure who I'd rather take. Both I think are going to be good to great, Mahomes has more ability I think but he may have to adjust more due to the system he played in. I have also seen Kizer pop up as our pick at 25. Raw ability alone he has tons, but he also will need more time to learn and adjust.

            Kayaa and Watson I would not take. Kayaa has bad velocity and multiple other issues. Weight room for starters to improve his throws and size. Watson is very inaccurate and can't read a D well, Williams saved him from more INTs than he threw. You can watch film and see Williams bat balls down or make a catch that is insane and if you see where the ball was...(thrown by Watson) it was lucky Williams could adjust to get it and not a DB.
            JJ Watt & Co ready to destroy

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Matt_in_KW View Post

              Kayaa and Watson I would not take. Kayaa has bad velocity and multiple other issues. Weight room for starters to improve his throws and size. Watson is very inaccurate and can't read a D well, Williams saved him from more INTs than he threw. You can watch film and see Williams bat balls down or make a catch that is insane and if you see where the ball was...(thrown by Watson) it was lucky Williams could adjust to get it and not a DB.
              I agree on Kayaa and Watson.

              Watson seems very much like RG3 to me. He plays a little too loose with the ball. Haphazard, if you will. When I was scouting last year I remember noting that Dak played loose, but not so much with the ball. He had a natural calm and easiness about him. That showed in Dallas this past year. Watson has a bit of a hyperactive nature to him. Kinda frenetic and can be a little too careless at times. But that same energy is why he's so explosive.

              Mahomes is a gunslinger. Straight up. Reminds me a little of Big Ben and a little of Favre, as far as his ability to make something from nothing. But I have my doubts about his ability to learn the playbook year one. He's not a system QB. There's really no projecting or predicting what type of offense will suit him best since he's a backyard QB. It's also what makes him hard to stop. He can do a little of everything. But I think he's one that will put it together and get smart in a hurry. He may never fix his footwork.. and honestly, the best thing his coach could do is let it stay the way it is. If it's not broke, don't fix it. Think it would cause more harm than good.

              Kayaa is afraid of college lineman. One thing I hate in a QB is when he looks at the rush. Savage is actually very good at keeping his eyes downfield by comparison so Kayaa would be a major step back from Savage imo.

              Kizer is again the most prototypical QB, but he's inconsistent. He kinda reminds me of the Ryan Tannehill types. Can be really good at times but they're too inconsistent to string it together for any length of time.

              Nate Peterman. Not flashy, but could easily be the safest pick of the draft considering he's supposed to go behind all these other guys and may have the highest floor. He's accurate. He's smart. And his arm can get stronger. Peyton Manning didn't have the strongest arm. Tom Brady doesn't have the strongest arm. Ryan Mallett has a cannon attached to his shoulder. And a lot of guys get a little more oomph once they hit the NFL weight training program pretty hard.

              This is just my .02.
              I am by NO MEANS a professional scout.
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              • #22
                Originally posted by ArkhamKnight92 View Post

                I agree on Kayaa and Watson.

                Watson seems very much like RG3 to me. He plays a little too loose with the ball. Haphazard, if you will. When I was scouting last year I remember noting that Dak played loose, but not so much with the ball. He had a natural calm and easiness about him. That showed in Dallas this past year. Watson has a bit of a hyperactive nature to him. Kinda frenetic and can be a little too careless at times. But that same energy is why he's so explosive.

                Mahomes is a gunslinger. Straight up. Reminds me a little of Big Ben and a little of Favre, as far as his ability to make something from nothing. But I have my doubts about his ability to learn the playbook year one. He's not a system QB. There's really no projecting or predicting what type of offense will suit him best since he's a backyard QB. It's also what makes him hard to stop. He can do a little of everything. But I think he's one that will put it together and get smart in a hurry. He may never fix his footwork.. and honestly, the best thing his coach could do is let it stay the way it is. If it's not broke, don't fix it. Think it would cause more harm than good.

                Kayaa is afraid of college lineman. One thing I hate in a QB is when he looks at the rush. Savage is actually very good at keeping his eyes downfield by comparison so Kayaa would be a major step back from Savage imo.

                Kizer is again the most prototypical QB, but he's inconsistent. He kinda reminds me of the Ryan Tannehill types. Can be really good at times but they're too inconsistent to string it together for any length of time.

                Nate Peterman. Not flashy, but could easily be the safest pick of the draft considering he's supposed to go behind all these other guys and may have the highest floor. He's accurate. He's smart. And his arm can get stronger. Peyton Manning didn't have the strongest arm. Tom Brady doesn't have the strongest arm. Ryan Mallett has a cannon attached to his shoulder. And a lot of guys get a little more oomph once they hit the NFL weight training program pretty hard.

                This is just my .02.
                I am by NO MEANS a professional scout.
                Neither am I my friend. I can only go by what I see on film. I like Watsons grit and will, but saw way too many times WRs and TEs bailed him out of INTs and he seems very raw reading a D or making post snap reads. Which lead to his high INT count in school. Kaaya is scared of college D linemen and LBs, the NFL is faster and stronger so he seems like he would have to spend as much time learning playbooks as he would bulking up and making better choices and perhaps getting over the fear...if he can.

                Mahomes and Mitch seem like the 2 who need a season to learn the system and work on weaknesses areas. But have the IQ to do it. Kizer is a wildcard he may be the best QB in the draft or could be a huge bust. Is it worth a 1st round pick or early 2nd to find out? I don't think it's a good idea. If he can't do it you wasted a high pick and will be having zero to show for it
                JJ Watt & Co ready to destroy

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                • #23
                  Im not sold on any of these guys in the first.. But if i had to take one.. It would be Mahomes. I would feel ok with kizer in 2. But again.. Peterman in the 3rd or 4th brings the best value in the lot. Hes good but not great.. But he comes at a price point around where we got savage. Plenty of first and 2nd round guys in the NFL doing nothing.. But we had some good play from oir 4th rounder... So something is going right. Just need to bring in someone else to compete and hope we catch lightning in a bottle. Mahomes would be the most likely candidate. You convinced me to go back and rewatch the film on mahomes btw... He was kwirkier than a dog in a sundress but when you ignore how he looks and just look at the end results... I think he needs to keep his wonky footwork. Its too natural to get rid of. It would do more harm than good i believe.
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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Matt_in_KW View Post

                    Neither am I my friend. I can only go by what I see on film. I like Watsons grit and will, but saw way too many times WRs and TEs bailed him out of INTs and he seems very raw reading a D or making post snap reads. Which lead to his high INT count in school. Kaaya is scared of college D linemen and LBs, the NFL is faster and stronger so he seems like he would have to spend as much time learning playbooks as he would bulking up and making better choices and perhaps getting over the fear...if he can.

                    Mahomes and Mitch seem like the 2 who need a season to learn the system and work on weaknesses areas. But have the IQ to do it. Kizer is a wildcard he may be the best QB in the draft or could be a huge bust. Is it worth a 1st round pick or early 2nd to find out? I don't think it's a good idea. If he can't do it you wasted a high pick and will be having zero to show for it
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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Optimistic View Post

                      Excellent post Marshall. The 2 areas that most would say are the teams biggest need areas just happen to be a down year talent wise in the draft. The team could focus on the strength of the draft to shore up other areas of need:

                      RB
                      TE
                      LB
                      CB
                      FS
                      SS
                      I see your point, but my issue is.. If Savage / Weeden play below average football this year, then next year we're left in the same boat and have no options at QB with experience in the system. Depending on who's available in the 3rd / 4th, I'd still like to spend a pick on QB. Add one to our system each year or 2 until one shines in it.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by SteelBluCurtain View Post

                        I see your point, but my issue is.. If Savage / Weeden play below average football this year, then next year we're left in the same boat and have no options at QB with experience in the system. Depending on who's available in the 3rd / 4th, I'd still like to spend a pick on QB. Add one to our system each year or 2 until one shines in it.
                        You know, if Savage / Weeden play below par, the rookie the team drafts this year wouldn't offer any remedy for 2017, just an early look see. I'm thinking Savage / Weeden could surprise all of us, especially if the team puts some talent around them. Up the ability to truly run the ball left or right with equal authority and this will really open the passing game in Obie's offense. This team must build a foundation to give any QB or RB the best opportunity at success...it also helps eliminate the predictability.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Optimistic View Post

                          You know, if Savage / Weeden play below par, the rookie the team drafts this year wouldn't offer any remedy for 2017, just an early look see.
                          I hope they do surprise us all, and I'm inclined to agree with you -- both could succeed if we build the team around them.

                          My point was actually looking toward 2018.. We let Savage and Weeden compete this season. I suspect Savage will have flashes of above average play, but take a few too many sacks before Weeden replaces him due to injury. I think Weeden will play well enough to win a few games, but not well enough to be named the starter moving forward. Which takes us to 2018. If we don't draft a QB this year, then we're looking at the 2018 offseason the same way we are 2017..

                          Personally, I'd like to take a QB this year.. let him learn the ropes behind Savage and Weeden, even if he doesn't contribute, that way if they play poorly then at least we have a new young QB with system experience for 2018.. we could even draft a QB in 2018 and have them compete..

                          I would just like to keep adding QB talent and keep trying people in this system until we find the one. It doesn't have to be a high round choice each year, but maybe instead of drafting a kick returner in the 3rd or 4th, or a special teams LBer we could invest some draft stock into our QB position.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by SteelBluCurtain View Post

                            I see your point, but my issue is.. If Savage / Weeden play below average football this year, then next year we're left in the same boat and have no options at QB with experience in the system.
                            Spot on, this is what I was getting at; itís the same thing year after year. Yes I do believe itís Savage time in Houston for him to prove himself, but we need to get a QB in the draft if Savage does not pan out. Heís been in BOís system 3 years now, longer than the other starters like Fitz, Mallett, Hoyer, and Lossweiler. Let him do his thing and hope he doesnít get hurt.

                            The top QBís in this years draft may not be best compared to other drafts, but if one is available at 25, Texans need to make a move on him. Even if they feel the need to move up to get a QB they like, then trade up and DO IT! I get tired of every year, ďOh, we should have moved up to get Bridgewater. Oh we passed on Carr. Oh we had the chance for Prescott and didnít pull the trigger.Ē

                            Yes they need to address OL, secondary, and other positions in the draft, but our backs have been against the wall for years trying to find a good QB. Since the Romo thing fell through, Texans need to look to the draft early for a QB if our current QB situation (Savage/Weeden) doesnít work out this year.

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                            • #29
                              So, if Robinson, Bolles, Ramczyk or Lamp are available at 25 and Mahomes, Kizer, Watson and Trubisky are off the board....the Texans are still supposed to draft a QB at 25?

                              Heck, lets say one of these OL and Kizer are available at 25....you're seriously going to draft Kizer over a top OT or the best OG in the draft? Who's the bigger gamble?

                              In this current era of football, RD1 QB's are expected to compete from Day1 for the QB1 spot or at the latest be in a position to unseat the incumbent by the 6th or 7th game of the season....anyone think Kizer could accomplish this and be successful? Or at least maintain the teams run on 9-7 seasons?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Optimistic View Post
                                So, if Robinson, Bolles, Ramczyk or Lamp are available at 25 and Mahomes, Kizer, Watson and Trubisky are off the board....the Texans are still supposed to draft a QB at 25?

                                Heck, lets say one of these OL and Kizer are available at 25....you're seriously going to draft Kizer over a top OT or the best OG in the draft? Who's the bigger gamble?

                                In this current era of football, RD1 QB's are expected to compete from Day1 for the QB1 spot or at the latest be in a position to unseat the incumbent by the 6th or 7th game of the season....anyone think Kizer could accomplish this and be successful? Or at least maintain the teams run on 9-7 seasons?
                                That's not what I was saying -- I was just saying I would like for them to add a QB at some point in the first 4 rounds, and continue to do so every other year until we've found our guy. Last year we took a project WR in the 3rd and a kick returner in the 4th.

                                This year some are saying they would like these positions addressed in the draft: RB, TE, LB, CB, FS, SS.

                                Let's just say Peppers or Ramczyk make it to 25 and the team can't pass on them.. awesome, I think we got a great player there. Then maybe one of those great CBs or TEs fall to us in the 2nd.. pull the trigger and lets get them here. But unless you see a sure thing in the 3rd round, bring in another QB! I know we need LBer depth, but I would MUCH rather bring in a QB prospect than a special teams LBer / Safety.

                                We'll see -- I heard / read OB talking about how Smith has a great feel for not only this draft, but the next couple years of the draft.. May be trying to set expectations for not grabbing a QB this year, may be a smoke screen..

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