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  • Originally posted by tko54321 View Post

    Could be. The velocity is worrisome given the history of throwers under 55 MPH. The more film I see of Davis Webb makes me think of Derek Carr's ultra-quick release, and he was just behind Mahomes at 59 MPH. I DO feel Watson is used to throwing a "very catchable ball," and that's more than rocket-armed Ryan Mallett can do. But you can't teach MPH can you? Maybe Watson had a tweaked arm and held back to not make it worse. Maybe.

    As far as fit, I have no clue what O'Brien has in store at this point, but his system-first mentality has always bothered me. O'Brien said after the draft he wasn't concerned with optimising Watson's talent as much as Watson learning "how we do things." It's what I call the O'Brien QB Grinder. Take a QB that was optimized in the Kubiak system and reduce his rating 14 points. Osweiler was bad, no argument, but Kubiak 1) got along with him and 2) made him a winner in Denver.

    My opinion of Fuller is 50-50. He DID catch the more difficult passes from Osweiler while dropping the long ones. He's not a true #2 WR, though, I don't think, because his lack of size gets him knocked off routes too easily. Jury is still out, since Osweiler even made Hopkins look bad. But again, it's O'Brien putting a player in a bad situation--he shouldn't have forced him into starting right away.
    I read one person saying that by correcting his form, his velocity will naturally climb and another saying the ball velocity metric hasn't been in place long enough or measured frequently enough to draw distinct conclusions (ie arm strength improving after a year in an NFL weight room, corrections to form, etc)

    I don't know what to make of this, because it really is a tale of 2 seasons.. Remember what the offense looked like with TJ Yates at the helm? Wildcat, WR passes, and a variety of formations.. that entire season the offense got real creative to compensate for QB play.. Remember the reports about the QBs working with Godsey and telling them which plays they liked and how it was a fun process to come up with one of those creative game plans... My theory is that Brock was a huge pain to work with and the open communication between QB and the folks creating the gameplan for him suffered, causing the gameplan to suffer.

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    • Originally posted by H2O4me View Post



      DESHAUN WATSON

      CLEMSON ACC

      COMBINE RESULTS

      GRADE

      5.98
      • 6'2"HEIGHT
      • 33"ARM LENGTH
      • 221LBS.WEIGHT
      • 9 3/4"HANDS


      The look on O'Brien's face there tells it all.

      Welcome to Rick's QB.
      Great pick

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      • Originally posted by SteelBluCurtain View Post

        I read one person saying that by correcting his form, his velocity will naturally climb and another saying the ball velocity metric hasn't been in place long enough or measured frequently enough to draw distinct conclusions (ie arm strength improving after a year in an NFL weight room, corrections to form, etc)

        I don't know what to make of this, because it really is a tale of 2 seasons.. Remember what the offense looked like with TJ Yates at the helm? Wildcat, WR passes, and a variety of formations.. that entire season the offense got real creative to compensate for QB play.. Remember the reports about the QBs working with Godsey and telling them which plays they liked and how it was a fun process to come up with one of those creative game plans... My theory is that Brock was a huge pain to work with and the open communication between QB and the folks creating the gameplan for him suffered, causing the gameplan to suffer.
        Well in Brocks defense his favorite play was throwing a few yards behind Hop, and into the dbs arms.
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        • http://www.battleredblog.com/2017/5/...e-a-noodle-arm
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          • Benjamin Allbright @AllbrightNFL
            I took a 60 throw random sampling of DeShaun Watson throws (no screens, swing passes) and tested velocity by framerate.

            Average was 53 mph.
            Supports Sports Science's 53.5 mph.

            2 mph ball velocity might not seem like a big deal, but it translates to 3 ft travelled on 20 yd throw in same time frame. Huge NFL window
            In 2016 Brock Osweiler was rated last (32nd) among all QBs (>400 attempts) by ProFootballFocus and ranked 33rd/34 QBs (>200 attempts) by Football Outsiders.

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            • Originally posted by H2O4me View Post




              Benjamin Allbright @AllbrightNFL


              Supports Sports Science's 53.5 mph.
              I still think his arm can get stronger with a pro workout training regiment. Brady had a weak arm coming in, now it doesn't look so bad. but knowing Watson is hitting 53 mph makes me feel better then when we were told he was only hitting 49 mph.

              I wonder if he was throwing soft at the combine to adjust to the receivers. he easily had the best day throwing the ball out there.
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              • Originally posted by H2O4me View Post

                2 mph ball velocity might not seem like a big deal, but it translates to 3 ft travelled on 20 yd throw in same time frame. Huge NFL window

                Still seems a little blown out of proportion.. When you've built your game around comfortably throwing at 53.5 mph, you naturally compensate for that 3 ft over 20 yards..

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                • https://youtu.be/TqSxB5yXvDw
                  Should Deshaun Watson Start For Houston Texans? | First Take | May 10, 2017

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                  • Originally posted by jkeener71 View Post
                    https://youtu.be/TqSxB5yXvDw
                    Should Deshaun Watson Start For Houston Texans? | First Take | May 10, 2017
                    All three are echoing the same exact things we are saying on here.
                    Last edited by Texanballer; 1 week ago.
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                    • Man people are killing me with this velocity crap. This young man can make every freaking throw.
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                      • I have to agree with Baller on this one. A good NFL qb needs to be able to not freak out under pressure (See Marc Sanchez) and deliver an accurate and catchable ball. Who cares how fast it gets ther as long as it gets there. If this was a velocity contest, Mallett would be a world beater.
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                        • Maybe he has extreme touch on his passes and they just seem slow? It seems he was able to throw open his WR's and actually throw nice catchable passes in all areas of the field....maybe he just has a knack for knowing when he needs velocity and when he needs to drop in some touch passes.

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                          • All I know is that at the combine where you can compare players side by side DW looked by far the most accurate and distinguished QB. Add in his playing resume and it is somewhat shocking to me he was the 3rd QB drafted. We will see in time but personally I like DW over all others. I could clearly be wrong but Deshaun has winner written everywhere. Will definitely be exciting to track his progress.

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                            • Originally posted by SteelBluCurtain View Post

                              Still seems a little blown out of proportion.. When you've built your game around comfortably throwing at 53.5 mph, you naturally compensate for that 3 ft over 20 yards..
                              I agree with you 100% if your reaction and decision making process only needs to accomodate 3 ft or 2 mph difference... You can easily overcome that when you're comfortable. I remember mallett had a cannon. He pegged guys so hard they couldnt hold onto it. Velocity and speed isnt everything. A lot of what a qb needs to be good at isnt measurable or quantifiable. You have to feel whats going on. And i think watson has a pretty decent feel for the game.
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                              • http://www.profootballweekly.com/20....e-nfl/a93ef5p/

                                Greg Gabriel: Is a quarterback's velocity an indicator of how good he will be in the NFL?

                                The Bears' former director of college scouting, Greg Gabriel has over 30 years of experience in NFL scouting and he'll be breaking down the top NFL prospects to watch this college season and other NFL news each week here at Pro Football Weekly. You can follow Greg on Twitter @greggabe

                                On recent days there has been a lot of chatter on Twitter about the throwing velocity of the quarterbacks at the annual Scouting Combine. What velocity measures is how fast the ball is moving once thrown. In other words, miles per hour.


                                Some of the results from the Combine were as follows: Patrick Mahomes: 60 mph, Davis Webb: 59 mph, DeShone Kizer: 56 mph, Mitch Trubisky and Jerod Evans: 55 mph, Nate Peterman and Brad Kaaya: 53 mph and Deshaun Watson: 49 mph. The main Twitter concern was that Watson does not have an NFL arm. Nonsense!


                                After these results were tweeted out, there were a number of other tweets saying things such as, “The minimal number a QB can have is 55" or, "Anyone with less than 55 will struggle to play in the NFL,” etc.


                                I found these tweets amusing, as the people who were posting these things don’t have any idea of what they are talking about. Why? The “velocity” stat has only been used for a few years and there is not nearly enough evidence to tell us a thing other than the miles per hour a quarterback's throw is traveling. Ten years from now there may be some evidence, but today there is nothing. In fact when I asked some GMs and coaches around the league that I know about the stat they all agreed it was meaningless at this time as far as predicting anything. Again, not enough data.


                                Most if not all of the top quarterbacks in the league never had their velocity measured at the Combine. I guarantee you that some of the greatest of all-time would have “flunked’ the velocity test. Coming out of college Peyton Manning had a good, but not a great arm. Tom Brady actually had a bit less than a good arm and Drew Brees' arm strength coming out was below average at best.


                                How did we know this? We watched practice live and a lot of game tape. I was at a Purdue practice during Brees' final year and he struggled to complete a 12-yard out in windy conditions. I was at Peyton Manning’s Pro Day and in a scripted workout he showed far less than a cannon. One of the knocks on Brady coming out was he couldn’t “drive” the ball.


                                After each of these quarterbacks spent some time in the National Football League, their arm strength improved. In fact, not only did it improve, but it improved dramatically.


                                In many college programs, the quarterback is not forced to do much in the weight room. Once they get to the NFL, things change. If you want to keep your job and be able to compete, you have to do everything you can to improve. There are numerous exercises quarterbacks can do to improve their arm strength. These players look to improve grip strength, forearm strength and triceps strength. Improving those areas will improve the zip a quarterback has on the ball.


                                Yes, coaches and evaluators want a quarterback to have a strong arm, but they also want the player to throw a tight ball. In fact many believe “spin” is more important than outright arm strength. A strong-armed quarterback who doesn’t throw a tight ball will struggle in the wind. Likewise, a quarterback with an average arm can have success in the wind or cold if he can spin the ball properly.


                                Getting back to Deshaun Watson. Anyone who doesn’t think his arm is strong enough to play in the NFL doesn’t know how to evaluate. He has no trouble making every required NFL throw. He has proven this over and over again on tape. While he may not have the quickest release, he can make all the throws and can easily throw the ball 55 yards downfield with a tight spiral.


                                Next time you see such nonsense, just throw it away. It is, at best, a very inexact stat that people in the NFL aren’t putting a whole lot of stock in. It just so happens that those are the people that matter when it comes to evaluations.

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